Catamarans - Current Market Situation

[Dragon Lady]

Suggest you head over to the "importing a boat to Australia" thread. You will find answers to many questions you no doubt have.

[Geminiguy]

Thanks, Dragon Lady. Will do. I also read with interest the discussion about the osmosis problem with some of the Fountain Pajot cats. It's great to have so much info available out there.
Ciao,

[Eleven]

If your budget stretches to a new 40ft Cat then FP and BroadBlue need a good luck. They are both built more for the private buyer than the American Charter market. And are built to the higher standards required for European Yachting.
The New BB company is being marketed in the UK by MultihullWorld. They do a lot of second hand boats too. There seems to be a glut of 31 ft Prout's at the moment but they do have larger boats, and a BB 385 demonstrator. Their site will give you a good idea of UK/Euro prices with many of their boats being scattered around the med.

[Geminiguy]

Many thanks for the info, Eleven. I'll check out the sites tomorrow. Tell me, are all boats of English / European origin wired for 240volts shore power?

Cheers,

[spiv]

Hi everyone,
I have not made posts on this forum, but I have had many cats in the last 30y of my life, so I have some experience.

I will try to add my late experiences and my way of thinking to all the issues I read about in this thread in the hope it will help someone.

I designed a 17m cat and was ready to have it built in Thailand when the EU marked fell down and I was offered a FP Salina 48’ at a price I could not refuse.
The main issue was the ability to get on a cat 18 months before the one I was going to have built.
Secondly I wanted a cat that could sail well, that cut many, many production cats off my list.
Thirdly one with enough internal volume to live aboard for as long as I have the inclination or the strength to do so, that took out most production cats below 42’
Lastly I wanted a boat from a reputable builder with many years of experience.
I have now sailed her from the North Atlantic coast of France to Greece (some 2500 NM) and I like her sailing ability and all the ergonomics.
I always had at least one crew, but I now know that I could handle her on my own if I choose to.

I looked at registering her under a “Flag of Convenience” and the best I found was the Marshal Islands, however eventually I registered her as an Australian Ship, the process is fairly painless as long as you follow the procedure.
The fact is that once you registered an OZ ship, you will not have to pay anything any more, no annual regios, company costs, etc etc, so it is the cheapest registry around; that is if you are Australian….

I will NOT have to pay any taxes until the day I bring her into OZ; at that time if I owned the boat LESS than one year, the cost + shipping costs get taxed, if I own her MORE than one year, then its assessed value gets taxed.
The assessor can be a surveyor/ valuer of your choice (as long as he is approved by the Customs Dpt), so I will not bring her into OZ quickly…. It is going to take me 3y anyway……

If you want to spend a lot of time on your boat, beware of ‘charter’ cats.
They are mostly misused even though the company selling it will tell you they have maintained spotlessly.
Sais are abused, engines are abused, topsides are scratched, inventory is bare minimum, anchor will be too small, and an enormous amount of other items. Someone suggested $100,000 to put a charter cat in liveaboard standards, well I would have thought a little less, however, you must consider all this before you make an offer.

Lastly, do not believe anything you read about how good a production cat will sail, most are like bulldozers, pushing their way through waves.
Go take them for a ride in winds over 25kn and sail them in all direction, then try to motor against the wind.
Remember that on a sail boat when you need engines is when you REALLY need engines..

Good luck!


PS: European boats are wired to 220V (I bought all my appliances in France and my laptop charger is very happy with 220V both from the genset and the Inverter).

[Dragon Lady]

I now have to agreed with you on the charter cats I have been looking at some ex charter Lavezzis which look good in the sales photos.
But I have just recieved photos from my sales broker (my guy not the sellers) and oh boy what a difference ripped sails, crazed windows, rusty metal fittings, trampoline full of big holes and I don't want to even think what the hulls look like under the water.
As they say if some thing looks too good to be true then it probably is.

[beau]

Osmosis is a common problem with fiberglass boats left fulltime in the water.

It is more likely to occur in warmer waters.
IT can happen on ALL fiberglass boats from ALL manufacturers.

There are slightly better resins now available but only a little better. (vinylester resin)

Brokers etc make a big deal out of it, to force the price down, I do not see it as a big problem. NO boat has ever sunk because of osmosis problems, it is mainly blisters in the gel coat and a cosmetic problem only.

I personally would look for a boat WITH osmosis because you can get them a lot cheaper, and it is not that hard to fix, when you want to sell the boat.
Make sure you follow the quidelines and fix it yourself, as professional will charge you a fortune because of the drama that surrounds it, and that it WILL probably come back, anyway.

I know,
I used to manufacture fiberglass boats and swimming pools and we tried everything to try and solve the problem of cosmetic blistering but it is impossible unless you use epoxy resin. (vinylester is no improvement)
I believe it is actually caused by a surplus of stryrene in the polyester resin which the manufacturer of the product, puts in, to extend the shelf life of the resin.

[AllezCat]

Originally Posted by spiv

Hi everyone,

I looked at registering her under a “Flag of Convenience” and the best I found was the Marshal Islands, however eventually I registered her as an Australian Ship, the process is fairly painless as long as you follow the procedure.
The fact is that once you registered an OZ ship, you will not have to pay anything any more, no annual regios, company costs, etc etc, so it is the cheapest registry around; that is if you are Australian….

Hi Spiv
good info.
I'm still vacillating between US, BVI and Aussie rego. The BVI will cost around $7500 using an agent then $1500 per year.
What was the ball park time/cost to do the Aussie rego remotely? I did the same from South Africa in 1996, but I don't remember(and things change).
Cheers

[spiv]

Originally Posted by AllezCat

Hi Spiv
good info.
I'm still vacillating between US, BVI and Aussie rego. The BVI will cost around $7500 using an agent then $1500 per year.
What was the ball park time/cost to do the Aussie rego remotely? I did the same from South Africa in 1996, but I don't remember(and things change).
Cheers

The registry has a 2 weeks workaround policy, providing you supplied all correct info and paid the AU799 reg fee. No more to pay, ever to them, you might have State annual registration fees, but they are not much.
The process was quite smooth for me.

BVI was on my shortlist too, but the Marshall have some privileges when cruising the USA which made it more attractive to me.
If you want to register your boat out of OZ write to Lisa Borkowski lisa@asapmarinedocs.com she was extremely knowledgeable and very helpful to me.

What swung me towards OZ was the fact that when you sail in a new port with an OZ flag, you are more welcome.
Also you cannot sail into OZ without paying GST and Import Duty, regardless of flag and since I want to sail the North and NE coast extensively, OZ flag was the best option.

[Eleven]

Most Euro built boats will be 220V, but if you are looking at new then you can specify.
Shore power is generally 220V 50 cycles per second, building sites use 110V tranformers ao these are readily available.
Charter companies will sell off their worst boats first, and some will be bad, but the price will reflect that. If you depart from US then you have the option of a decent boat at a good price, but it will cost you a full overhaul. Still cheaper than a new boat, and easier to make the mods you want.

[AllezCat]

Originally Posted by spiv

The registry has a 2 weeks workaround policy, providing you supplied all correct info and paid the AU799 reg fee. No more to pay, ever to them, you might have State annual registration fees, but they are not much.
The process was quite smooth for me.

BVI was on my shortlist too, but the Marshall have some privileges when cruising the USA which made it more attractive to me.
If you want to register your boat out of OZ write to Lisa Borkowski lisa@asapmarinedocs.com she was extremely knowledgeable and very helpful to me.

What swung me towards OZ was the fact that when you sail in a new port with an OZ flag, you are more welcome.
Also you cannot sail into OZ without paying GST and Import Duty, regardless of flag and since I want to sail the North and NE coast extensively, OZ flag was the best option.

thanks

[Geminiguy]

Originally Posted by Eleven

Most Euro built boats will be 220V, but if you are looking at new then you can specify.
Shore power is generally 220V 50 cycles per second, building sites use 110V tranformers ao these are readily available.
Charter companies will sell off their worst boats first, and some will be bad, but the price will reflect that. If you depart from US then you have the option of a decent boat at a good price, but it will cost you a full overhaul. Still cheaper than a new boat, and easier to make the mods you want.

Thanks again for the info on voltages, Eleven. I don't suppose you would know what's involved in converting a U.S. boat that's wired for 110vac to 220/240vac? Is it just a matter of changing the sockets and does the US wiring run a 3 core (active, neutral and earth) wire?

I was also wondering about stuff like gensets and air con. Can gensets be easily converted to 220/240 or would I need a new genset and the same with air con units?

Also, on the subject of prices I was just reading the July/August 2010 edition of Multihulls magazine (incidently, which I got for free after looking at the web site for "The Catamaran Company") and they have a review on the latest Leopard 38. FYI, the full on charter version with everything is $369k and the owners "basic" version is $289k FOB at Cape Town SA.

Compared to the cost of bridgedeck cats here in Aus, it's a bargain.

Many Thanks again, Eleven.
Les

[boatman61]

I brought a US boat into the UK and had the 110v problem... intially I used a transformer to boost upto 220v off an extention till I changed all the plugs/charger in the boat.... the biggest expense was a new mains charger unit.... the 110v fitted cannot deal with euro juice....

[Geminiguy]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I brought a US boat into the UK and had the 110v problem... intially I used a transformer to boost upto 220v off an extention till I changed all the plugs/charger in the boat.... the biggest expense was a new mains charger unit.... the 110v fitted cannot deal with euro juice....

Thanks Boatman,

I've just gotten off the phone to a mate who is an electrical engineer and he suggested just leaving the 110v system in and using a step-down transformer to convert the 240v into 110v.

He also mentioned that the 11ov wiring often isn't designed to carry the 240v loads and could be a potential fire risk if just the sockets are changed. Aus wiring is rated to carry 240v and often 415v (power circuit wire as opposed to lighting circuits).

The other suggestion he had was to leave the 110v circuits in (in case of cruising to the U.S. e.g.) and just run some additional 240v wiring to run Aussie appliances, microwave, toaster etc. if required.

Cheers,
Les

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Geminiguy

Thanks Boatman,

I've just gotten off the phone to a mate who is an electrical engineer and he suggested just leaving the 110v system in and using a step-down transformer to convert the 240v into 110v.

He also mentioned that the 11ov wiring often isn't designed to carry the 240v loads and could be a potential fire risk if just the sockets are changed. Aus wiring is rated to carry 240v and often 415v (power circuit wire as opposed to lighting circuits).

The other suggestion he had was to leave the 110v circuits in (in case of cruising to the U.S. e.g.) and just run some additional 240v wiring to run Aussie appliances, microwave, toaster etc. if required.

Cheers,
Les

Damn... I was told the opposite which is why I just changed the plugs.... lol