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Old 11-01-2017, 13:32   #61
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Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
I'm sorry but, WHAT?!?!

Sorry, it wasn't 350 but 510 kg..

This from o-yachts web site designed by Eric Lerouge.
There were some other articles about that I just couldn't find now..

O-YACHTS - Custom yachts

Meanwhile, pls remember that I have cats both with LAR and daggerboard, so I am not biased..I love all of them and both have cons and pros.

Cheers

Yeloya
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Old 11-01-2017, 14:02   #62
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Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

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Yeloya, thanks for the reply, I got the payload numbers directly from Outremer actually while doing my comparison shopping (3.6 Metric tons to be exact). In my mind the O51 is really, interior space wise, a lot like the 44' higher production cats, if not even a bit smaller. That is one of the reasons I'm considering it even though its over 50'. So if the payload is nearly identical that's good to know since going over that number will affect all these cats mentioned.

Maybe another way to ask the question is, if they were all the same price, and had same payload capacity, which one would you choose for extended cruising?
Catana 47 or 471 or 50 ..She' s significantly faster than the rest (might be slightly slower than O51), very solid boat and more spacious than O51.
I was planning a circumnavigation east to west via three capes (Clipper route) and was going after a Catana 58 which seemed to be safer option for South Ocean and Cape Horn. My wife didn't like the idea and this route and convinced me to buy a 47 and stay at home..

The price of brand new Helia, 15 years old carbon 582 (Calygo design) and 2-3 years old 47 C are about in the same price range. (500.000 USD +/- %10)
They can be singlehanded, reefed/unreefed from the cockpit while for others you need to visit the mast..Exposed helms are the only concern for these boats but if you make traditional route via tropics, it shouldn't be a problem.


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Yeloya
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Old 11-01-2017, 14:13   #63
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pirate Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

Seeing as I've had 11kts out of an L380 with reefed main and genny on a beam reach and 9-10kts with just a gennaker running before.. some of the numbers mentioned surprise me.. and this was a liveaboard with WM and all the toys modern cruisers expect.
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Old 11-01-2017, 14:26   #64
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Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

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Originally Posted by ol1970 View Post
So if you guys and gals would humor me, and lets just say that budget was not a real concern in the equation, but for a crew (of mainly 2, occasional up to 4 guests) the factors were:

1) Safety
2) Comfort
3) Ability to single hand
4) Reliability/quality (I understand you'll still be fixing your boat in exotic locations, but minimizing this as best possible)
5) Fun factor
6) Load carrying

I love the livability of say the FP Helia, Lagoon 450, and Leopard 45, but completing a crossing 2-3 days sooner on a Catana or O51 could sure save a lot of wear and tear on your body. The load carrying capacity on the O51 is 8,000 lbs, to me (the novice) that is a lot of crap you would have to have in order to exceed that and start impacting the performance of the boat right? If you look at the overall cost of ownership as well, am I fooling myself to think that an Outremer or Catana will hold its value better than one of the higher production brands? In the end if you buy new and eat $250k in depreciation over 4-5 years on a $650,000 Lagoon or a $1M O51/Catana which would have been the better value? I'm guessing my thinking is off, but just wondering others thoughts.
Here's a good one for you ! Not sure about 2) Comfort, but I think the rest of your wants would be met.

Alan Langdon says rudder on his catamaran broke four days into his 27-day journey with six-year-old daughter | Stuff.co.nz
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Old 11-01-2017, 18:01   #65
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Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
Sorry, it wasn't 350 but 510 kg..

This from o-yachts web site designed by Eric Lerouge.
There were some other articles about that I just couldn't find now..

O-YACHTS - Custom yachts

Meanwhile, pls remember that I have cats both with LAR and daggerboard, so I am not biased..I love all of them and both have cons and pros.

Cheers

Yeloya

That's a number drawn out of a hat. You could add huge "minikeels" and gain thousands of tonnes of extra "buoyancy". The boat would be a pig though.

In reality if a designer will calculate how much payload carrying ability a boat will have regardless of daggerboards or keels. It's simply a function of the immersion rate (waterplane area) and how much difference there is between the unloaded waterline and the loaded one.

His list of advantages for daggerboards is lacking too. The gain isn't just in pointing angle. It's also in reduced drag on every other point of sail.

You may not be biased, but it seems mr Lerouge is...
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Old 12-01-2017, 00:10   #66
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Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
You may not be biased, but it seems mr Lerouge is...
He may well be.. As you know there isn't any consensus among naval architects on this matter.

Chris White (Atlantic), Sébastien Schmitd (Swisscat), Christophe Barreau (Outremer, Catana) are in favor of daggerboards.

Eric Lerouge is not against and has designed many models with daggerboards. He simply says this may not be adequate for cruising cats.
Van Petegham shares the same view. He designed anything from Lagoon's to record breaking multihulls.

Marc Lombard (Nautitech, Privilege) believes fast cats can be made w/out daggerboards and he's against. Recoupeau (recent models of FP) is also against but , FP is not on the performance league anyway.

All these guys are respected naval architects. I have my personal opinion having sailed both but I don't have enough technical/theoritical knowledge to challenge them.

You had said that you were happy with yr boat and her payload, the rest doesn't really matter.

Cheers

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Old 12-01-2017, 14:25   #67
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Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

Sure, it's fine to have a point of view. But use genuine reasons!
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