Atlantic 57 Catamaran Capsized

[double u]

it's the age old argument what makes a better cruising boat: a cat or a mono.
a cat can be one hell of a good one - particularly if money is no object! - but I have yet to be proven wrong that dollar for dollar of price (marinafees!!!) & pound for pound of payload a mono will be very hard if not impossible to beat

[double u]

"Bit like a naturally understeering front engine car, which will start to plow and scrub off speed if you overcook it."
excellent your analogies, dockhead, excellent!
(only this pronounced understeering on my fathers car made our 3 rtws possible! without the wild understeering of his VW K70 I sure would have killed myself back in 74 when I just had gotten my drivers license...)

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by double u

it's the age old argument what makes a better cruising boat: a cat or a mono.
a cat can be one hell of a good one - particularly if money is no object! - but I have yet to be proven wrong that dollar for dollar of price (marinafees!!!) & pound for pound of payload a mono will be very hard if not impossible to beat

Depends on your definition of better. Personally I hate marinas. The extra cost of staying in one isn't an issue, because I stay away from them.

Cats are so comfortable at anchor, why would you want to stay in a marina?

Then there's safety. In reality, capsizes are rare, just as sinkings are rare in monos. The most likely way for a sailor to lose his life is by falling overboard.

And this risk is far lower in a catamaran.

[double u]

some marinas are somewhat hard to avoid...
"Then there's safety. In reality, capsizes are rare, just as sinkings are rare in monos. The most likely way for a sailor to lose his life is by falling overboard."
true, true, ...
our state of mind on the cat was always way less relaxed than on the mono, we were practically always "at battle stations" when on passage which was much less the case on the mono (a somewhat unfair comparison, but still so on principle...
& you have not yet touched the price-topic...

[smj]

Originally Posted by double u

some marinas are somewhat hard to avoid...
"Then there's safety. In reality, capsizes are rare, just as sinkings are rare in monos. The most likely way for a sailor to lose his life is by falling overboard."
true, true, ...
our state of mind on the cat was always way less relaxed than on the mono, we were practically always "at battle stations" when on passage which was much less the case on the mono (a somewhat unfair comparison, but still so on principle...
& you have not yet touched the price-topic...

My guess is a 40' cat will have about the same space and performance as a 55' mono, and maybe cost the same? But in my part of the world I would be paying for an extra 15' in both dockage and haul out fees, so the mono would end up being more expensive.

[smj]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Here's a video of us " dawdling" in a slower cat than the Atlantic 57. With 2 reefs in when we really didn't need a reef at all. Around 18 kts of breeze.

https://youtu.be/o4PoObnQrpc

What I like about this video is he isn't hitting 11+ knots occasionally he is constantly in the double digits. My question to 44 is what kind of fish can you expect to catch while trolling at 11 kts.?[emoji16]

[Boatguy30]

I actually seem to get a lot of strikes in the 9-11 knot range. The problem is slowing down enough, fast enough to land the fish. One time I caught about a 15lb mahi on my heavy handline and was able to actually able to quickly pull the fish in while it skipped/planed along the surface of the water.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Here's a video of us " dawdling" in a slower cat than the Atlantic 57. With 2 reefs in when we really didn't need a reef at all. Around 18 kts of breeze.

https://youtu.be/o4PoObnQrpc

That is very sweet sailing indeed . My kind of sailing. You can see from the wakes how sweetly those hulls knife through the water. Who designed that boat?

I reckon you'd get another knot if you'd get the clews outboard a bit - both sails look overtrimmed to me. Unsolicited advice for whatever little it might be worth.

Note to those who think cats can't sail upwind - leeway is an almost linear inverse function of boat speed. A fast boat with easily driven hull (or hulls) automatically has a huge advantage upwind.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by smj

My guess is a 40' cat will have about the same space and performance as a 55' mono, and maybe cost the same? But in my part of the world I would be paying for an extra 15' in both dockage and haul out fees, so the mono would end up being more expensive.

In our part of the world you pay 1,5x for a cat, so then the comparison lines up exactly.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

You are aware that daggerboards are only deployed to reduce leeway upwind, and can be raised at night, even if you are sailing upwind?

And sails can be reduced at night?

Whaaat? Now I know.

I was recently on a Catana spending a bunch of time on beam reach with only the windward board down. (is this bad?) We weren't trying to go up wind- just fast. Tons of fun, but the whole craft shuddered in a spooky way every time we hit puffs.
Was the relatively new captain taking a greater risk than he thought?

BTW, nice video!

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by smj

What I like about this video is he isn't hitting 11+ knots occasionally he is constantly in the double digits. My question to 44 is what kind of fish can you expect to catch while trolling at 11 kts.?[emoji16]

We get mackerel and the occasional tuna. 300kg breaking strain handlines mean we don't lose many.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That is very sweet sailing indeed . My kind of sailing. You can see from the wakes how sweetly those hulls knife through the water. Who designed that boat?

I reckon you'd get another knot if you'd get the clews outboard a bit - both sails look overtrimmed to me. Unsolicited advice for whatever little it might be worth.

Note to those who think cats can't sail upwind - leeway is an almost linear inverse function of boat speed. A fast boat with easily driven hull (or hulls) automatically has a huge advantage upwind.

The boat was designed by Bob Oram. And BTW, he's back out of retirement.

Sails OK upwind too:

https://youtu.be/34qgJRprAlE

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by double u

some marinas are somewhat hard to avoid...
"Then there's safety. In reality, capsizes are rare, just as sinkings are rare in monos. The most likely way for a sailor to lose his life is by falling overboard."
true, true, ...
our state of mind on the cat was always way less relaxed than on the mono, we were practically always "at battle stations" when on passage which was much less the case on the mono (a somewhat unfair comparison, but still so on principle...
& you have not yet touched the price-topic...

We're more relaxed on our cat than we were on our mono. We've been in worse weather, and the boat handled it better.

Maybe you paid too much attention to the cat haters on here?

You didn't answer my question about what would happen to a cat if it's keel fell off.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

To each his own! Neither A57 nor 911S is your cup of tea!

The 911 was always my favorite choice for cruising across the U.S. ...

Fun. Yes. Sure.
I once put 500 miles on a Lamborghini Diablo VT. Too much fun. Back roads. That is certainly MY cup of tea, over a cute little 911S. Only needed 2nd gear on Angeles Crest Highway. (2nd gear does 70 MPH, BTW)
I let my kid sit in the passenger seat while I revved the V12 in the driveway. That was all the fun he had that day.
Different tools for different jobs.

We cruise with family. Mono so far, cat full time soon. Every choice we make is a bit conservative. A performance cat might outrun a storm but I feel like it is not the craft for us. 6 knots average is cool.
To each his own.

(Pro Tip: Beverly Hills Rent-a-Car will scam you for a $6000 clutch + $9000 loss of rental if you are not careful. Do NOT accept a car from them if the clutch is already slipping even a little a bit. Thieves.)

[beiland]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

I actually seem to get a lot of strikes in the 9-11 knot range. The problem is slowing down enough, fast enough to land the fish. One time I caught about a 15lb mahi on my heavy handline and was able to actually able to quickly pull the fish in while it skipped/planed along the surface of the water.

Perhaps this 'gamefishing under sail' cat could solve a few problems simultaneously,...significantly reduced height of the rig for the same sail area,....and able to quickly get rid of sail to land that fish.....


Gamefishing Design - a 65' mast-aft sailing catamaran