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**Dockhead** · 04-12-2017, 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by smj

If it's the cat you really like why couldn't you sail with a full time reef in the main and working jib? Or possibly cut the mast and sails down to gain extra stability?

Because reefed sails, especially headsails, work terribly, and wear out quickly. And because reefing does nothing to reduce windage and weight aloft of a bigger rig.

I could conceivably order one with a slightly smaller rig. But where I'm sailing, above 50N and sometimes above 60N, wind and sea conditions don't generally favor any kind of multihull, plus almost none of the harbors up here can take a pleasure boat with a 28' beam. Despite all of that, I do toy with the idea from time to time.

**Dockhead** · 04-12-2017, 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyan

It is bothersome to have to read between the lines. The Atlantic 57 seems like a race boat sold as a cruiser. There clearly are pitfalls in cruising on a racer. Not my cup of tea given the extra danger, but I couldn't tell that from the brochures.

There is a 2011 Atlantic 55 for sale in North Carolina for $590K. Fine boat. The owner echos the builder's claim of "extended cruising range" due to its high performance, in addition to high luxury. Apparently this refers to the ability to speed to those far away islands before all the caviar runs out.

One could argue that a heavier cat might make a more relaxing long range cruiser, as you are likely very far from the hairy edge. Daggerboards and large sails don't make sense at night to me anyway.

Cruising across the US in a Porsche at 100 MPH would be constantly exciting, but how many hours of adrenaline per day will fit into your extended travel plans?
Doing the same trip in a Winnebago at 65 MPH would get you there, while the driver can enjoy the scenery too.

To each his own! Neither A57 nor 911S is your cup of tea!

The 911 was always my favorite choice for cruising across the U.S. (or Germany, or Italy, or France, or any of the other countries I drove across in my 911s). Contrary to the impression of those who are drawn to Winnebagos, 911s are not indeed race cars. They are wonderful usable extremely reliable and practical cars, which I used for decades as my everyday drivers. High performance road cars; not race cars. Throw your bag behind the seat, jump in, and knock out 1000 miles -- did it all the time, with great pleasure.

Nor is the A57 a racing boat at all -- rather, a high performance cruising boat, which is not a contradiction in terms, at least not for people like me. Jump in, knock out 250 miles -- I totally get it.

Nor is my present boat any kind of seagoing Winnebago. She is not nearly as fast as an A57, but with a 47' waterline, decent D/L, and carbon laminate sails, she'll do 200 mile+ days with a decent sailing wind, and is much closer to an A57 in spirit, than to a Winnebago. And that's how I like it -- but I would never say that this kind of sailing is for everyone. To each his own!

44'cruisingcat · 04-12-2017, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyan

Daggerboards and large sails don't make sense at night to me anyway..

You are aware that daggerboards are only deployed to reduce leeway upwind, and can be raised at night, even if you are sailing upwind?

And sails can be reduced at night?

double u · 05-12-2017, 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dockhead

To each his own! Neither A57 nor 911S is your cup of tea!

The 911 was always my favorite choice for cruising across the U.S. (or Germany, or Italy, or France, or any of the other countries I drove across in my 911s). Contrary to the impression of those who are drawn to Winnebagos, 911s are not indeed race cars. They are wonderful usable extremely reliable and practical cars, which I used for decades as my everyday drivers. High performance road cars; not race cars. Throw your bag behind the seat, jump in, and knock out 1000 miles -- did it all the time, with great pleasure.

Nor is the A57 a racing boat at all -- rather, a high performance cruising boat, which is not a contradiction in terms, at least not for people like me. Jump in, knock out 250 miles -- I totally get it.

Nor is my present boat any kind of seagoing Winnebago. She is not nearly as fast as an A57, but with a 47' waterline, decent D/L, and carbon laminate sails, she'll do 200 mile+ days with a decent sailing wind, and is much closer to an A57 in spirit, than to a Winnebago. And that's how I like it -- but I would never say that this kind of sailing is for everyone. To each his own!

very well put, the porsche analogy!!! everybody advocating cats as run-of-the-mill rtwers for the average cruising couple should keep that in mind. a multihull for speedfreaks or "motivated" cruisers would be a viable (albeit very expensive) choice, for the more-than-average-comfort-seeker it's contraindicated imho (but what do I know, after 1 cat & 2 mono rtws)

double u · 05-12-2017, 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

You are aware that daggerboards are only deployed to reduce leeway upwind, and can be raised at night, even if you are sailing upwind?

And sails can be reduced at night?

...this is why somebody spends 2 fortunes on a 57 high-performance cruiser: to dawdle 50% of the time with reduced sails & raised daggerboards, slow with excessive leeway...

TJ D · 05-12-2017, 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by double u

...this is why somebody spends 2 fortunes on a 57 high-performance cruiser: to dawdle 50% of the time with reduced sails & raised daggerboards, slow with excessive leeway...

Hmmm-I really don't think that this is what's happening at all with the folks sailing these boats.

Remember that what you consider 2 fortunes might be a perfectly modest budget for some folks.

Here's the deal with a performance boat-even if you're sailing it 'slow', you're still WAY faster than almost everybody on the water. It's the really great advantage of high-performance cruisers. Even if you're 'dawdling' along, you're still making 200 mile days, with the boat barely loaded up and totally under control.

This is why fast boats make good cruisers.

While we're not on a cat, we often get comments from passersby who tell us our boat is way too radical, powerful, and fast to be a 'proper' cruising boat. Sure, if we wanted to sail at 100% of the boat's potential all the time, that's correct. It would be an unmanageable beast. The beauty is that we can be very conservative and still make double digit speeds with ease.

For our part, our best 24 hour run is 260 miles. (I had a keen racing sailor complaining all day that we were sailing the boat like an Island Packet on this particular run, by the way-FAR too conservative for him). This was all done with the boat on autopilot, rarely trimming, and really just taking it easy.

So, were we dawdling along and going 'slow'? Yes!

200 mile days are quite normal for us. We averaged 220 miles/day over 6 days while sailing in about 12 knots TWS a couple years back.

I hope this perspective helps somewhat.

double u · 05-12-2017, 02:34

my post was in answer to 44'cruisingcats suggestion to dawdle at night. & as to "2 fortunes": sure, what is one persons fortune is another persons small change. only the price of a good, really fast cruisngcat for 2 people rtw would buy a very good & fast monohull too, & a big one. a boat with which one wouldn'
t have to dawdle at night to be safe.
& the suggestion that a mono sinks from a wind-induced knockdown during a squall is ridiculous: that's never happened except in the "olden" days.
imho for a couple to "push" a cruising mono can be fun, to do the same on a cruising cat (bought for the same money!) is nerve-wracking half of the time.

double u · 05-12-2017, 02:39

also I think there is a big difference between a cat & a mono dawdling upwind: the cat with it's much greater windage will make very poor progress, not only speed but cog being very poor, whereas the mono will have much the same cog (maybe even pointing higher due to less AW speed) with reduced sails

**Dockhead** · 05-12-2017, 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by double u

my post was in answer to 44'cruisingcats suggestion to dawdle at night. & as to "2 fortunes": sure, what is one persons fortune is another persons small change. only the price of a good, really fast cruisngcat for 2 people rtw would buy a very good & fast monohull too, & a big one. a boat with which one wouldn'
t have to dawdle at night to be safe.
& the suggestion that a mono sinks from a wind-induced knockdown during a squall is ridiculous: that's never happened except in the "olden" days.
imho for a couple to "push" a cruising mono can be fun, to do the same on a cruising cat (bought for the same money!) is nerve-wracking half of the time.

This is partially true - pushing a mono is somewhat easier because monos are unflippable and have a natural safety fuse with sails getting depowered automatically as the boat heels.

Bit like a naturally understeering front engine car, which will start to plow and scrub off speed if you overcook it.

But without ballast, a performance cat like an A57, with fine hulls, will be extremely easy to drive through the water, and like TJs gorgeous boat, which I've been on (hi TJ), will still move out even when "dawdling" under greatly reduced sail. I haven't sailed an A57, but I suppose it will do just fine upwind under reduced sail.

44'cruisingcat · 05-12-2017, 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by double u

...this is why somebody spends 2 fortunes on a 57 high-performance cruiser: to dawdle 50% of the time with reduced sails & raised daggerboards, slow with excessive leeway...

Do you spend 50% of your time sailing upwind at night?

I'd suggest you'd be unique if you do.

double u · 05-12-2017, 03:24

...sailing northbound in the Red Sea it was 100% most days & nights...

44'cruisingcat · 05-12-2017, 03:28

Here's a video of us " dawdling" in a slower cat than the Atlantic 57. With 2 reefs in when we really didn't need a reef at all. Around 18 kts of breeze.

https://youtu.be/o4PoObnQrpc