Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-09-2008, 15:35   #91
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No longer post here
Boat: Catalac Catamaran
Posts: 2,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by MidLandOne View Post
I wouldn't waste my money buying it but a quick browse will quickly demonstrate that they all on board were a bunch of what most would regard as absolute kooks of the wierdest kind, as well as being completely incompetent in matters of boats.

John
I read they were a bunch of 'New Age' wackos. At first, they had difficulty steering their boat manually as they sailed from the USA completely on autopilot.

Gmac,

Heartlight (Catalac 12M) was one case where the boat and crew survived without injuries, soley because of their choice of boat. Apparently, seamanship was not a factor.
__________________

__________________
Tropic Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2008, 15:43   #92
Senior Cruiser
 
Talbot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brighton, UK
Boat: Privilege 37
Posts: 3,579
Images: 32
This bears out the fate of Richard Wood's Eclipse after they abandoned her due to the belief that worse conditions were on their way. The boat survived the storm with no one providing any assistance

Most modern boats are far more capable that the crew.

Richard - what happened to Eclipse in the end?
__________________

__________________
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
Talbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2008, 16:12   #93
Registered User
 
Keegan's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: World Resident
Boat: Dolphin 460 Catamaran WONDERLAND
Posts: 399
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMac View Post
You could say I like facts rather than hearsay but then I don't have an agenda.

Good golly people are you listening to yourselves? Blame the boat???? What about the people using them. Did they have any input into the end result be that bailing out prematurely, rolling the beast or sailing along nicely without zero damage. More boats made it through completely fine than didn't. It appears the boats crews and their actions don't count towards any end result and I for one find that both spooky, plainly very weird and I'll chuck in stupid, very stupid.

Using the minority of the minority to justify something, to me just seems like grasping at straws.
Regardless of whether people have facts or opinions of how monos, multi's and their crews performed in the Queens birthday storm, it is at best anecdotal data. There are many confounding variables that have clearly been identified by this thread and of course there are small numbers of boats and crew which hardly could result in a statistically significant outcome measure. Can we learn from it, yes, but exactly how much...
__________________
Cheers,
Keegan
Keegan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2008, 16:20   #94
Registered User
 
sctpc's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: saga kan walker 31ft
Posts: 545
Send a message via Skype™ to sctpc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keegan View Post
Regardless of whether people have facts or opinions of how monos, multi's and their crews performed in the Queens birthday storm, it is at best anecdotal data. There are many confounding variables that have clearly been identified by this thread and of course there are small numbers of boats and crew which hardly could result in a statistically significant outcome measure. Can we learn from it, yes, but exactly how much...
Don`t Panic, trust your Cat (ar boat ) and you and your c boat should be ok. Then kick your self not not reading the weather fax. (refering to today NO One should get cought in a storm with todays Technology to that extent)
__________________
May there always be water under your boat,

sctpc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2008, 16:45   #95
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by sctpc View Post
Don`t Panic, trust your Cat (ar boat ) and you and your c boat should be ok.
This isn't aimed at sctpc it seems if the crew gets off, it's a bad crew and if they make it, it's a good boat.

A good crew can help a crap boat and a good boat can help a crap crew.

(In the middle of reading heavy weather tactics - a useful slog, but a slog none the less...)
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2008, 16:53   #96
Registered User
 
sctpc's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: saga kan walker 31ft
Posts: 545
Send a message via Skype™ to sctpc
I dident say "it seems if the crew gets off, it's a bad crew" there are times when you must make that call but for me it would be extrem like with Yacht Abandoned - Crew Rescued I would put my legs life over a boat and woulden`t let my wife stay (not that she would) all I was stateing is if your ok tust you boat in most cases it will look after you.
__________________
May there always be water under your boat,

sctpc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2008, 17:37   #97
Marine Service Provider
 
GMac's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North of the Bridge, thankfully
Boat: R930
Posts: 1,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickm505 View Post
Heartlight (Catalac 12M) was one case where the boat and crew survived without injuries, soley because of their choice of boat. Apparently, seamanship was not a factor.
Absolute crap and there is zero way I can believe 'the boat' did everything all on it's lonesome, sorry Rick. And as a FYI you could have said any boat including the monos that came thru unscathed as well, my reply would be the same. I just can't believe a boat, any boat, can just wonder thru a pile of nasty like that without the crew having any input.

And I'm a bit surprised someone who I have plenty of time for, that being you, would even suggest such a thing.

Absolutely right Keegan.
__________________
GMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2008, 17:59   #98
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,459
Images: 69
"Ramtha" survived the rest of the storm with no crew on board after they were evacuated. As mentioned previously, so did one of Richard Woods' boats. Difficult for the crew to have any input when they aren't on the boat.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2008, 18:06   #99
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by sctpc View Post
I dident say "it seems if the crew gets off, it's a bad crew"

My bad - I probably shouldn't have quoted anyone - I didn't mean to attribute that to you - Sorry.

I was pointing out that we must be careful not to attribute all good outcomes to the boat and all bad outcomes to the crew.

However, armchair quarterbacking is as natural as slowing down to see a car crash... We can't help it as a species.
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2008, 19:33   #100
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No longer post here
Boat: Catalac Catamaran
Posts: 2,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMac View Post
Absolute crap and there is zero way I can believe 'the boat' did everything all on it's lonesome, sorry Rick. And as a FYI you could have said any boat including the monos that came thru unscathed as well, my reply would be the same. I just can't believe a boat, any boat, can just wonder thru a pile of nasty like that without the crew having any input.

And I'm a bit surprised someone who I have plenty of time for, that being you, would even suggest such a thing.

Absolutely right Keegan.
I don't want to get in an argument with you but I couldn't disagree more. There are now more than one example of a catamaran, left to it's own devices without any input from crew surviving a major storm. Heartlight and Ramtha were the first that were documented, Richard Woods boat was the latest.

I'm surprised by your post as well as it doesn't square with what we do know. We have crew accounts in these cases which directly conflict with your statement.

I will not call crew accounts 'crap'. Why don't you ask Mr. Woods yourself?
__________________
Tropic Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2008, 20:34   #101
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Colombo
Posts: 1,059
It seems that the abilities of the crew are of little value in some boats - the devil in me makes me ponder on whether that was the background to Rick's purchase decision .

I find it interesting this harping on about how Ramtha was later found as if that devolved some great survival merit to cats - when in fact, as I have related, many of the abandoned monos turned up too (and who knows where the 2 that as far as I know were not found got too?). In fact the vast majority of monos completed their voyages safely with their crews (and at least one cat did too).

The abandoned monos even got themselves to land again so there you go, monos know how to at least attempt to finish the voyage by themselves instead of drifting around waiting for someone to salvage them . Stupid comment I know, but perhaps no more so than some of the other claims being made.

In fact a large number of abandoned sail boats turn up later somewhere or other (probably the vast majority do) only suffering the ravages of time or a rocky end, and that includes both cats and monos (and even power boats, heaven forbid ). Some are wrecks or of poor structure before they even set sail on their voyages but still survive when abandoned.

The fact that Ramtha turned up is therefore completely meaningless in terms of any particular superior ability to survive. The fact that Heartlight got to where it did with a crew of poor competence says less about Catalacs than can be said about all the other boats that were poorly crewed and actually successfully completed their voyages despite that.
__________________
MidLandOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2008, 21:12   #102
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: yeppoon q'ld aust
Boat: inspiration 10 - 10.5 mtrs capricorn magic
Posts: 97
Wow what a hornets nest!
__________________
lolanreg@smartc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2008, 22:05   #103
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Colombo
Posts: 1,059
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolanreg@smartc View Post
Wow what a hornets nest!
Or perhaps a Cat's Cradle ?
__________________
MidLandOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2008, 22:16   #104
Marine Service Provider
 
GMac's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North of the Bridge, thankfully
Boat: R930
Posts: 1,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
"Ramtha" survived the rest of the storm with no crew on board after they were evacuated. As mentioned previously, so did one of Richard Woods' boats. Difficult for the crew to have any input when they aren't on the boat.
Completely sorry. That scenario did cross my mind just after I pushed the button, damn that Murphy's Law.

So in that case I take it all back.

I wasn't thinking of the individual boats when I posted, just of one with a real lazy crew. I was just trying to see how anyone could just sit there and do nothing. If they weren't actually there, that does explain it.

My bad for not thinking, sorry all, inc Rick. It's this damn work stuff interfering with my foruming
__________________
GMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2008, 22:30   #105
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,459
Images: 69
As far as I can recall, this thread started out discussing advantages and disadvantages of a catamaran compared to a monohull. As usual it has degenerated into an argument about how cats would survive the ultimate storm.

The Queen's birthday storm has simply been used to illustrate that in a situation where many monohulls and some cats were caught in the same storm, which was severe enough to roll and dismast some boats, and did in fact sink one, the cats did not all immediately turn turtle or break up as some would have us believe they would.

I don't know that anyone is claiming superiority for cats in this kind of weather, simply that they CAN survive it, without needing active intervention from a highly competent crew.
__________________

__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
multihull

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Monohull or Multihull Sailboat? Gisle Multihull Sailboats 546 09-03-2015 09:42
Buy a Sailboat, Charter a Sailboat, or Fractional Ownership? Dr. Moreau General Sailing Forum 7 04-09-2012 13:07
What type of multihull is this? David M Multihull Sailboats 19 21-06-2008 02:06
sailboat vs motorboat - sailboat wins Born to Cruise Off Topic Forum 6 20-06-2008 14:41
Looking for Multihull widget3 Multihull Sailboats 14 19-07-2007 16:41



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:09.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.