Advantages of a multihull sailboat - Page 7

Tropic Cat · 24-09-2008, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidLandOne

I wouldn't waste my money buying it but a quick browse will quickly demonstrate that they all on board were a bunch of what most would regard as absolute kooks of the wierdest kind, as well as being completely incompetent in matters of boats.

John

I read they were a bunch of 'New Age' wackos. At first, they had difficulty steering their boat manually as they sailed from the USA completely on autopilot.

Gmac,

Heartlight (Catalac 12M) was one case where the boat and crew survived without injuries, soley because of their choice of boat. Apparently, seamanship was not a factor.

Talbot · 24-09-2008, 15:43

This bears out the fate of Richard Wood's Eclipse after they abandoned her due to the belief that worse conditions were on their way. The boat survived the storm with no one providing any assistance

Most modern boats are far more capable that the crew.

Richard - what happened to Eclipse in the end?

Keegan · 24-09-2008, 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMac

You could say I like facts rather than hearsay but then I don't have an agenda.

Good golly people are you listening to yourselves? Blame the boat???? What about the people using them. Did they have any input into the end result be that bailing out prematurely, rolling the beast or sailing along nicely without zero damage. More boats made it through completely fine than didn't. It appears the boats crews and their actions don't count towards any end result and I for one find that both spooky, plainly very weird and I'll chuck in stupid, very stupid.

Using the minority of the minority to justify something, to me just seems like grasping at straws.

Regardless of whether people have facts or opinions of how monos, multi's and their crews performed in the Queens birthday storm, it is at best anecdotal data. There are many confounding variables that have clearly been identified by this thread and of course there are small numbers of boats and crew which hardly could result in a statistically significant outcome measure. Can we learn from it, yes, but exactly how much...

sctpc · 24-09-2008, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keegan

Regardless of whether people have facts or opinions of how monos, multi's and their crews performed in the Queens birthday storm, it is at best anecdotal data. There are many confounding variables that have clearly been identified by this thread and of course there are small numbers of boats and crew which hardly could result in a statistically significant outcome measure. Can we learn from it, yes, but exactly how much...

Don`t Panic, trust your Cat (ar boat ) and you and your c boat should be ok. Then kick your self not not reading the weather fax. (refering to today NO One should get cought in a storm with todays Technology to that extent)

**Ex-Calif** · 24-09-2008, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by sctpc

Don`t Panic, trust your Cat (ar boat ) and you and your c boat should be ok.

This isn't aimed at sctpc it seems if the crew gets off, it's a bad crew and if they make it, it's a good boat.

A good crew can help a crap boat and a good boat can help a crap crew.

(In the middle of reading heavy weather tactics - a useful slog, but a slog none the less...)

sctpc · 24-09-2008, 16:53

I dident say "it seems if the crew gets off, it's a bad crew" there are times when you must make that call but for me it would be extrem like with Yacht Abandoned - Crew Rescued I would put my legs life over a boat and woulden`t let my wife stay (not that she would) all I was stateing is if your ok tust you boat in most cases it will look after you.

**GMac** · 24-09-2008, 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickm505

Heartlight (Catalac 12M) was one case where the boat and crew survived without injuries, soley because of their choice of boat. Apparently, seamanship was not a factor.

Absolute crap and there is zero way I can believe 'the boat' did everything all on it's lonesome, sorry Rick. And as a FYI you could have said any boat including the monos that came thru unscathed as well, my reply would be the same. I just can't believe a boat, any boat, can just wonder thru a pile of nasty like that without the crew having any input.

And I'm a bit surprised someone who I have plenty of time for, that being you, would even suggest such a thing.

Absolutely right Keegan.

44'cruisingcat · 24-09-2008, 17:59

"Ramtha" survived the rest of the storm with no crew on board after they were evacuated. As mentioned previously, so did one of Richard Woods' boats. Difficult for the crew to have any input when they aren't on the boat.

**Ex-Calif** · 24-09-2008, 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by sctpc

I dident say "it seems if the crew gets off, it's a bad crew"

My bad - I probably shouldn't have quoted anyone - I didn't mean to attribute that to you - Sorry.

I was pointing out that we must be careful not to attribute all good outcomes to the boat and all bad outcomes to the crew.

However, armchair quarterbacking is as natural as slowing down to see a car crash... We can't help it as a species.

Tropic Cat · 24-09-2008, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMac

Absolute crap and there is zero way I can believe 'the boat' did everything all on it's lonesome, sorry Rick. And as a FYI you could have said any boat including the monos that came thru unscathed as well, my reply would be the same. I just can't believe a boat, any boat, can just wonder thru a pile of nasty like that without the crew having any input.

And I'm a bit surprised someone who I have plenty of time for, that being you, would even suggest such a thing.

Absolutely right Keegan.

I don't want to get in an argument with you but I couldn't disagree more. There are now more than one example of a catamaran, left to it's own devices without any input from crew surviving a major storm. Heartlight and Ramtha were the first that were documented, Richard Woods boat was the latest.

I'm surprised by your post as well as it doesn't square with what we do know. We have crew accounts in these cases which directly conflict with your statement.

I will not call crew accounts 'crap'. Why don't you ask Mr. Woods yourself?

MidLandOne · 24-09-2008, 20:34

It seems that the abilities of the crew are of little value in some boats - the devil in me makes me ponder on whether that was the background to Rick's purchase decision

.

I find it interesting this harping on about how Ramtha was later found as if that devolved some great survival merit to cats - when in fact, as I have related, many of the abandoned monos turned up too (and who knows where the 2 that as far as I know were not found got too?). In fact the vast majority of monos completed their voyages safely with their crews

(and at least one cat did too).

The abandoned monos even got themselves to land again so there you go, monos know how to at least attempt to finish the voyage by themselves instead of drifting around waiting for someone to salvage them

. Stupid comment I know, but perhaps no more so than some of the other claims being made.

In fact a large number of abandoned sail boats turn up later somewhere or other (probably the vast majority do) only suffering the ravages of time or a rocky end, and that includes both cats and monos (and even power boats, heaven forbid

). Some are wrecks or of poor structure before they even set sail on their voyages but still survive when abandoned.

The fact that Ramtha turned up is therefore completely meaningless in terms of any particular superior ability to survive. The fact that Heartlight got to where it did with a crew of poor competence says less about Catalacs than can be said about all the other boats that were poorly crewed and actually successfully completed their voyages despite that.

lolanreg@smartc · 24-09-2008, 21:12

Wow what a hornets nest!

MidLandOne · 24-09-2008, 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by lolanreg@smartc

Wow what a hornets nest!

Or perhaps a Cat's Cradle

?

**GMac** · 24-09-2008, 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

"Ramtha" survived the rest of the storm with no crew on board after they were evacuated. As mentioned previously, so did one of Richard Woods' boats. Difficult for the crew to have any input when they aren't on the boat.

Completely sorry. That scenario did cross my mind just after I pushed the button, damn that Murphy's Law.

So in that case I take it all back.

I wasn't thinking of the individual boats when I posted, just of one with a real lazy crew. I was just trying to see how anyone could just sit there and do nothing. If they weren't actually there, that does explain it.

My bad for not thinking, sorry all, inc Rick. It's this damn work stuff interfering with my foruming

44'cruisingcat · 24-09-2008, 22:30

As far as I can recall, this thread started out discussing advantages and disadvantages of a catamaran compared to a monohull. As usual it has degenerated into an argument about how cats would survive the ultimate storm.

The Queen's birthday storm has simply been used to illustrate that in a situation where many monohulls and some cats were caught in the same storm, which was severe enough to roll and dismast some boats, and did in fact sink one, the cats did not all immediately turn turtle or break up as some would have us believe they would.

I don't know that anyone is claiming superiority for cats in this kind of weather, simply that they CAN survive it, without needing active intervention from a highly competent crew.

24-09-2008, 15:43	#92
Talbot Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Stavanger, Norway Boat: Last boat was a Catalac 9m Hi-Jude Posts: 2,026 Images: 23	This bears out the fate of Richard Wood's Eclipse after they abandoned her due to the belief that worse conditions were on their way. The boat survived the storm with no one providing any assistance Most modern boats are far more capable that the crew. Richard - what happened to Eclipse in the end? __________________ "Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss." Robert A Heinlein

24-09-2008, 16:53	#96
sctpc Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 82	I dident say "it seems if the crew gets off, it's a bad crew" there are times when you must make that call but for me it would be extrem like with Yacht Abandoned - Crew Rescued I would put my legs life over a boat and woulden`t let my wife stay (not that she would) all I was stateing is if your ok tust you boat in most cases it will look after you. __________________ May there always be water under your boat, May she always be seaworthy, ever afloat, May the bilge pump be certain to work night and day, May the compass and charts always show the safe way, May you find gentle harbor as every day ends, May you lower your anchor amidst peace and good friends.

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24-09-2008, 17:59	#98
44'cruisingcat Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,502 Images: 32	"Ramtha" survived the rest of the storm with no crew on board after they were evacuated. As mentioned previously, so did one of Richard Woods' boats. Difficult for the crew to have any input when they aren't on the boat.

24-09-2008, 20:34	#101
MidLandOne Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 721	It seems that the abilities of the crew are of little value in some boats - the devil in me makes me ponder on whether that was the background to Rick's purchase decision . I find it interesting this harping on about how Ramtha was later found as if that devolved some great survival merit to cats - when in fact, as I have related, many of the abandoned monos turned up too (and who knows where the 2 that as far as I know were not found got too?). In fact the vast majority of monos completed their voyages safely with their crews (and at least one cat did too). The abandoned monos even got themselves to land again so there you go, monos know how to at least attempt to finish the voyage by themselves instead of drifting around waiting for someone to salvage them . Stupid comment I know, but perhaps no more so than some of the other claims being made. In fact a large number of abandoned sail boats turn up later somewhere or other (probably the vast majority do) only suffering the ravages of time or a rocky end, and that includes both cats and monos (and even power boats, heaven forbid ). Some are wrecks or of poor structure before they even set sail on their voyages but still survive when abandoned. The fact that Ramtha turned up is therefore completely meaningless in terms of any particular superior ability to survive. The fact that Heartlight got to where it did with a crew of poor competence says less about Catalacs than can be said about all the other boats that were poorly crewed and actually successfully completed their voyages despite that.

24-09-2008, 21:12	#102
lolanreg@smartc Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: yeppoon q'ld aust Boat: inspiration 10 - 10.5 mtrs capricorn magic Posts: 90	Wow what a hornets nest!

24-09-2008, 22:30	#105
44'cruisingcat Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,502 Images: 32	As far as I can recall, this thread started out discussing advantages and disadvantages of a catamaran compared to a monohull. As usual it has degenerated into an argument about how cats would survive the ultimate storm. The Queen's birthday storm has simply been used to illustrate that in a situation where many monohulls and some cats were caught in the same storm, which was severe enough to roll and dismast some boats, and did in fact sink one, the cats did not all immediately turn turtle or break up as some would have us believe they would. I don't know that anyone is claiming superiority for cats in this kind of weather, simply that they CAN survive it, without needing active intervention from a highly competent crew.