2 to 1 Halyard

[AndyBerry]

Does anyone have solutions to the twist that develops in a 2 to 1 halyard from raising and lowering sail? The result is inability to raise the sail fully as the twists becomes too tight creating friction at head of mast. I've tried faking rather than coiling halyard tail and that slows the development of the twist but it still shows up.

[model 10]

I switched the type of rope. I now have some sort of 12 strand and it does not have any twist.

[paxfish]

I too have 12 strand and sometimes get some twist. Releasing pressure and quickly taking it up again should allow your sheave swivel to....swivel.

Hitting the swivel with some silicone spray may help as well.

If you have seemingly permanent twist in the halyard, you may want to drop the main, reeve a messenger, remove the halyard and drag it behind the boat slowly to let it untwist.

Oh, and yes - always flake the halyard when the main is raised. That helps ensure you can drop it quickly without knots and fouling.

The first solution always works for me. Let us know YOUR results....

[AndyBerry]

Originally Posted by paxfish

I too have 12 strand and sometimes get some twist. Releasing pressure and quickly taking it up again should allow your sheave swivel to....swivel.

Hitting the swivel with some silicone spray may help as well.

If you have seemingly permanent twist in the halyard, you may want to drop the main, reeve a messenger, remove the halyard and drag it behind the boat slowly to let it untwist.

Oh, and yes - always flake the halyard when the main is raised. That helps ensure you can drop it quickly without knots and fouling.

The first solution always works for me. Let us know YOUR results....

Thx for your reply.
Could you be more specific with 12 strand? Manufacturer? Supplier? (guessing West Marine)

Swivel seems to spin fine it's the twist in the rope. You can spin the swivel before you raise the sail and get the twists out but it twists right back up when you let go of the swivel block. At the head of the mast the twist is so tight releasing the pressure allows it to twist more. I had marginal success sailing loose luffed and then hoisting through slow tack.

Have dropped halyard and taken twist out but... it returns.

[Stumble]

The problem is you are coiling the line wrong, and twisting the line. Over time the twist works its way up from the tail, up the halyard, and into the 2:1. The immediate solution is to take the halyard down, untwist it, and hope you haven't twisted the core away from the cover. Long term you need to start flaking the line instead of cooling it to prevent it from happening again.

Switching to a 12 strand dyneema, or polyester line will help, because you can't permanently damage the line (there is no core/cover issue). But you can still induce the line to twist.

[DotDun]

Assuming the head of the sail is on a car, use a block that locks (won't swivel).

It's very possible I don't understand the issue.....

[AndyBerry]

Originally Posted by Stumble

The problem is you are coiling the line wrong, and twisting the line. Over time the twist works its way up from the tail, up the halyard, and into the 2:1. The immediate solution is to take the halyard down, untwist it, and hope you haven't twisted the core away from the cover. Long term you need to start flaking the line instead of cooling it to prevent it from happening again.

Switching to a 12 strand dyneema, or polyester line will help, because you can't permanently damage the line (there is no core/cover issue). But you can still induce the line to twist.

We are faking, flaking, or figure eighting the halyard tail. The 12 strand may help. Someone else has suggested a block that doesn't swivel on the head of the sail as it is attached to a car on the mast track. The two suggestions combined may work. Got any experience with no swivel blocks?

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Assuming the head of the sail is on a car, use a block that locks (won't swivel).

It's very possible I don't understand the issue.....

This. don't let the headboard block swivel.

[Seaslug Caravan]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Assuming the head of the sail is on a car, use a block that locks (won't swivel).

It's very possible I don't understand the issue.....

^^ What he said.

Even on slugs you can flick the swivel.

Why on earth have you complicated it with a swivel.

And if you really want to uncomplicate things use a wichard 2:1 halyard shackle
and flick the block.

NO SWIVEL = NO TWISTING PROBLEM.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by AndyBerry

We are faking, flaking, or figure eighting the halyard tail. The 12 strand may help. Someone else has suggested a block that doesn't swivel on the head of the sail as it is attached to a car on the mast track. The two suggestions combined may work. Got any experience with no swivel blocks?

All blocks on my boat lock in place. You must be using at least a 60mm if not a 72mm or even 90mm?? I use a fixed bail snap shackle (Lewmar 72mm (?) Synchro) between the block and sail head.

[topmast]

How about a swivel on the mast head end of the halyard..As I understand your set up you have a single non swivel block on the head of the sail and a non swivel at the masthead.. From experience I can say that atwisted up halyard with swivel blocks can be really nasty.(not my boat) I had four double block halyards and two single purchase for headsails on a gaff ketch so learning to coil and flake was done pretty quick Same size coil every time ,held in left hand clockwise and a bit of a twist of the right thumb . Of course you need proper belaying pins on a pin rail to store the coils too.

[model 10]

A single braid will be a lot less trouble than a double braid. I found the spectra/amsteel stuff pretty slick so I went up in size on the part I handle and tapered to a smaller on the other end, saves money too. I needed to fatten the 5/16" spectra to work in the clutch. I may need to add a cover because it slips on the winch sometimes. I'm using a low friction ring and a soft shackle at the headboard. The pain in the ass for me is getting a twist in the halyard when you go to hook it to the head board. It's so small at the mast head I can't always see it clearly.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Assuming the head of the sail is on a car, use a block that locks (won't swivel).

It's very possible I don't understand the issue.....

^^ +1 if the block cant be locked then just lash it so it can't twist. I have often noticed it is the winch that seems to twist the line as it rolls slightly depending on the fleet angle.

[vmattiola]

Originally Posted by topmast

How about a swivel on the mast head end of the halyard..As I understand your set up you have a single non swivel block on the head of the sail and a non swivel at the masthead.. From experience I can say that atwisted up halyard with swivel blocks can be really nasty.(not my boat) I had four double block halyards and two single purchase for headsails on a gaff ketch so learning to coil and flake was done pretty quick Same size coil every time ,held in left hand clockwise and a bit of a twist of the right thumb . Of course you need proper belaying pins on a pin rail to store the coils too.

My vote is here too. I've had this problem on charter & delivery cats a dozen times. Even if you coil perfectly with zero twist, the winch (particularly if it's a power winch) will ALWAYS introduce twist into the line. If the line is twisting and staying twisted, it's because it can never spin out at the end because it's affixed to the mast head (probably with a bowline or splice).

Think about when you coil a line by hand, you don't start with the bitter end right? Because you need the twists to spin out the bitter end. Same principle with the 2:1 halyard. If you bitter end (at the masthead) can spin, then no twist should ever form.

Granted, you're going to lost about 3 or 4 inches of sail raising clearance at the masthead, but I don't think that's a huge deal.

Summary: LOCK the sail-head block in place, put a swivel at the masthead where the halyard terminates and is usually tied in place. That's what I've done.

[Jim_W]

Start coiling the line in the opposite direction that you have been coiling it. It will untwist eventually.