Wood blue water boat opinions, would you buy one

[IdoraKeeper]

I own a classic Ingrid. Currently she is in the yard getting a refit. A wooden boat owner has to be a romantic at heart. You must enjoy the work required and be consistent in its application. We tend to think modern is always "improved". Yet there is a certain genius in classic design which becomes apparent when under sail...it absolutely moves me. Nothing cookie cutter about it. It's not for everybody that's for sure.

[Stumble]

Personally I would never own a wood boat. But I very much appreciate the allure. My issue is that I simply do not have, nor am interested in acquiring the skills to keep on in good shape, and thus it would be a very expensive proposition for me to own one.

This of course has no bearing on if someone else should own one.

But much like maxi-race boats my preference for wooden boats is to sail them on OPM.

[SKG56]

Okay, In anybody's opinion, what is or was the best wood to build a wood sailboat, the whole boat, the least likely to rot, prevent worms, last the longest, if cared for, you get the idea,

[SKG56]

Another One, What was, that is was, not now. or even 30 years ago, before that, the best material used for the plank fasteners

[crazyoldboatguy]

Originally Posted by SKG56

Okay, In anybody's opinion, what is or was the best wood to build a wood sailboat, the whole boat, the least likely to rot, prevent worms, last the longest, if cared for, you get the idea,

Not sure there is a perfect wood to build a boat with. Each type of wood has good qualities and shortcomings. Teak is quite rot and bug resistant but is also very heavy. One quality - denseness and oil impregnated - also makes for a wood that doesn't swell a lot when exposed to water. Ever hear the phrase "leaky teak"? Teak decks can last a long time but are also prone to leaking unless the construction and caulking is done well.

Cedar for planking can work well Cedar does have anti-rot capacity but doesn't hold fasteners well - if you are screwing something to the material. I wouldn't use cedar to make a keelson, for instance. Garboard planks screwed to a cedar keelson would not hold well.

The list is long - and the argument just as long. I'm sure folks could rip my opinion apart easily.

[crazyoldboatguy]

Originally Posted by SKG56

Another One, What was, that is was, not now. or even 30 years ago, before that, the best material used for the plank fasteners

Again, it can be difficult to name one. It depends on how the planks are to be fastened.

On my 70 y/o ketch, the planks were nailed with HDG square nails. The planking suffered from iron sickness so bad none of the planks could be re-used. At the stern, where there was much more shape, there were heavy pure copper rivets 1/4" diameter - hammered over heavy washers. Every last one of them was in perfect condition.

When we re-planked the boat we used silicon bronze screws - the preferred fastener. From the time period you specify.

[SKG56]

Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy

Not sure there is a perfect wood to build a boat with. Each type of wood has good qualities and shortcomings. Teak is quite rot and bug resistant but is also very heavy. One quality - denseness and oil impregnated - also makes for a wood that doesn't swell a lot when exposed to water. Ever hear the phrase "leaky teak"? Teak decks can last a long time but are also prone to leaking unless the construction and caulking is done well.

Cedar for planking can work well Cedar does have anti-rot capacity but doesn't hold fasteners well - if you are screwing something to the material. I wouldn't use cedar to make a keelson, for instance. Garboard planks screwed to a cedar keelson would not hold well.

The list is long - and the argument just as long. I'm sure folks could rip my opinion apart easily.

Thanks COBG, Can you tell me where your boat was built, and what the hull material is

[TeddyDiver]

In northern Europe the main species for boat building are Norwegian Spruce and Pine. Both doing it fine.

BR Teddy

[JPA Cate]

SKG56,

Iirc, you said she was mahogany over oak frames. Find out where the mahogany came from, apparently, Philippine mahogany is preferred. The fasteners is a big issue: oak doesn't like moisture, and I imagine could get the iron sickness very bad. You'll want to know how she's fastened.

Ann

[SKG56]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

SKG56,

Iirc, you said she was mahogany over oak frames. Find out where the mahogany came from, apparently, Philippine mahogany is preferred. The fasteners is a big issue: oak doesn't like moisture, and I imagine could get the iron sickness very bad. You'll want to know how she's fastened.

Ann

I haven't said what type of wood the boat I'm talking about is made of, or what the fasteners are made of either, not yet, just trying to get as much info as possible, when I decide to buy or not to buy I'll give the specifics and pics, want to keep it close for now, don't really want to be that way, but on an internet forum it might be prudent,

[reed1v]

Any wood, depending on type of boat, where used, for what purpose. Nonsensical question, really. FWIW, apitong wood makes great frames for ocean going sailboats of 40 or more feet. Pine makes great decks due to ease of working, maintaining, and replacing. Balsa works well to keep weight down, to fill in spaces, and for a substrata for sandwich construction(decks, etc). The list goes on.

[SKG56]

Originally Posted by reed1v

Any wood, depending on type of boat, where used, for what purpose. Nonsensical question, really. FWIW, apitong wood makes great frames for ocean going sailboats of 40 or more feet. Pine makes great decks due to ease of working, maintaining, and replacing. Balsa works well to keep weight down, to fill in spaces, and for a substrata for sandwich construction(decks, etc). The list goes on.

Since I don't know a damn thing about wood sailboats and you seem to know a hell of a lot, I appreciate your valued input

[crazyoldboatguy]

Originally Posted by SKG56

Thanks COBG, Can you tell me where your boat was built, and what the hull material is

My boat was built in 1946 in Valpariso, Chili. We are confident the planking was of mahagony but are not sure of the frames. They are not white oak as was called for in the plans. They were steam bent so that narrows it down, I suppose, but we never thought much about it. We cut out the rotted sections and sistered new steam bent white oak sections. A surveyor thought the keelson was made of cypress bit it was a wild guess based on its condition.

It almost doesn't matter what material is used, as long as it isn't red oak.

[TrentePieds]

@SKG56

The literature on wood technology and of wood's use boat/ship building is vast and fascinating. For a wooden-boat enthusiast, it is, IMO, required reading. A good way to get into that literature is to read the publication called WeedenBoat. As I've said elsewhere, I have in my library every one of the 250 issues published to date. The vast preponderance of the editorial content addresses HOW wood is used in the construction of boats and ships, and the constraints put on yacht designers by the choice of wood as a construction medium rather than the alternatives, but a writer by the name of Richard Jagels has an article in nearly every issue that discusses the comparative qualities of the innumerable species of wood that have been used in ships and boats, and in particular what the strengths and weaknesses of each of these various species are considered to be.

As Reed touched upon, "oak" is not jut oak. White oak is NOT the same wood as red oak. Just so, 'cedar" is not just cedar, Western Red Cedar being an entirely different breed of cat from yellow cedar, which, though they are coniferous species, are entirely different from long-leaf pine. All of them are used for planking.

Though we wish we could, we cannot possibly give you an answer to your question as to what wood is "best". There is NO best. Black locust makes poor planking, but superior knees and breast hooks. Western red cedar makes miserably poor knees and breast hooks, but is superb for laying up the hull of a strip-planker. Ash (black ash) is the way to fly for tillers.

If you really, really want to learn about the body and soul of wooden boats, then buy one. A wooden boat is a demanding teacher and a hard task-master :-)

TrentePieds

[SKG56]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

@SKG56

The literature on wood technology and of wood's use boat/ship building is vast and fascinating. For a wooden-boat enthusiast, it is, IMO, required reading. A good way to get into that literature is to read the publication called WeedenBoat. As I've said elsewhere, I have in my library every one of the 250 issues published to date. The vast preponderance of the editorial content addresses HOW wood is used in the construction of boats and ships, and the constraints put on yacht designers by the choice of wood as a construction medium rather than the alternatives, but a writer by the name of Richard Jagels has an article in nearly every issue that discusses the comparative qualities of the innumerable species of wood that have been used in ships and boats, and in particular what the strengths and weaknesses of each of these various species are considered to be.

As Reed touched upon, "oak" is not jut oak. White oak is NOT the same wood as red oak. Just so, 'cedar" is not just cedar, Western Red Cedar being an entirely different breed of cat from yellow cedar, which, though they are coniferous species, are entirely different from long-leaf pine. All of them are used for planking.

Though we wish we could, we cannot possibly give you an answer to your question as to what wood is "best". There is NO best. Black locust makes poor planking, but superior knees and breast hooks. Western red cedar makes miserably poor knees and breast hooks, but is superb for laying up the hull of a strip-planker. Ash (black ash) is the way to fly for tillers.

If you really, really want to learn about the body and soul of wooden boats, then buy one. A wooden boat is a demanding teacher and a hard task-master :-)

TrentePieds

Okay, That sounds like a very good reference guide, what I was trying get at is, this boat is 70 years old, there is no rot, none, it doesn't need any repair, no apparent water intrusion either, now, surely some woods rot easier than others, please correct me if I'm wrong, if you could choose a wood type, for the Hull, so I can be specific, species, or what ever you want to call it, that was available in the early to mid 1900's, what would it be, maybe your answer is a wood type that's still available, I don't know, I'm going check A Wooden Boat out and try to learn as much as I can about this, I've heard of this publication before, I think I read something about it once, I know that I'm ignorant about this, that's why I posted this thread