Why are metal boats popular among seasoned cruisers?

[Gaia]

Originally Posted by TJ D

This is what we did-I couldn't stand sailing our steel boat, at all. Sure, it was strong, but at something near 20 tons at 43 feet, I HATED sailing that thing.

Light and fast will be my philosophy forevermore, unless I want to do something around ice, then I'd go with a very spartan steel boat, and ditch it right after the expedition.

So, we're a case in point...

I beg to differ. Steel boats are not necessarily heavy. Or slow. Our Gazelle is steel and her junk rig makes her as fast off the wind as any FG boat her low of 38ft and loa of 42. We have sailed her around the world in 23 years and have never had to replace any steel in her hull. We have hit things and been glad of her strength. The last time was in a small tributary in French Guyana were we hit rocks hard enough to wet the decks on healing over but once in clear water could hardly find where we hit. We did not even feel the need to check the bilges.

Her strength is not only under water to which others have alluded. Our stanchions and railings will easily absorb a launched 200 lb man, or woman. Not many FG boats can claim that.

She has no rust, as that is simply a matter of care and not at all onerous. Steel boats are dry inside if well built and cared for and since rusting is only a serious issue if inside but cannot occur if dry then it becomes an imagined problem for those not in the know.

GAIA is, or was before we overloaded her, 18000 lbs displacement. A steel boat big enough need not be heavier than one of glass. Nor does she need to be 'ditched'.

Pardon me but that is ridiculous.

Jim

[shayski]

I've been in the sailboat market for about a 1 1/2 years. Looking for a cruiser that I can live aboard for extended periods of time as well as a boat that can be sailed comfortably on ocean passages. The options are incredibly over whelming, to say the least. So many manufacturers, so many different sizes and features and the price goes from free to top dollar for the same make and model. I'm really quite tired of it and I'm more confused and farther away to making a purchase now then I was the day I started looking. But here's the reason for this on going rant, I have found a steel boat that from all intents and purposes is a top of the line, well maintained, well outfitted and pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. And the best thing about it is the boat is for sale for about a 1/4 of what it should be. Well here in lays the problem, the steel hull has some serious issues that are gonna need some attention, by all signs the hull was built well and right with the proper material, but there are probably about twenty-five small holes in the steel revealed after paint stripping and soda blasting. So it's gonna need some attention, obviously. Now I'm sure I can do the work myself, I have years of welding and metal fabrication in my past, and these are the things I love to do. But my questions are, is this a wise boat to purchase, what would cause these metal rusting issues? And would it be an on going issue or is there a procedure I can do that would stop this from continuously from happening. I guess what I'm looking for is some honest feedback on the positive and negative issues behind the purchase of a vessel with these problems and with a metal hull.

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by Gaia

I beg to differ. Steel boats are not necessarily heavy. Or slow. Our Gazelle is steel and her junk rig makes her as fast off the wind as any FG boat her low of 38ft and loa of 42. We have sailed her around the world in 23 years and have never had to replace any steel in her hull. We have hit things and been glad of her strength. The last time was in a small tributary in French Guyana were we hit rocks hard enough to wet the decks on healing over but once in clear water could hardly find where we hit. We did not even feel the need to check the bilges.

with over 700 built, Colvin's Gazelle is likely one of the best examples of a successful cruising boat design, in any material.

Originally Posted by Gaia

Her strength is not only under water to which others have alluded. Our stanchions and railings will easily absorb a launched 200 lb man, or woman. Not many FG boats can claim that.

She has no rust, as that is simply a matter of care and not at all onerous. Steel boats are dry inside if well built and cared for and since rusting is only a serious issue if inside but cannot occur if dry then it becomes an imagined problem for those not in the know.

one of the things about steel boats, in particular those that are of a framed design, is they often rust from the inside. And if they are framed, theyre somewhat more difficult to repair and paint.

Originally Posted by Gaia

GAIA is, or was before we overloaded her, 18000 lbs displacement. A steel boat big enough need not be heavier than one of glass. Nor does she need to be 'ditched'.

Pardon me but that is ridiculous.

Jim

Zaya is 17,700 lbs and shes only 36'-5"

[nortonscove]

Originally Posted by hpeer

That is so WRONG it’s not funny.

They found that metal KEELS fall off PLASTIC boats. I grant the article was worded poorly, yet if you read carefully the message clear.

There is one instance where a Steel boat had a bolt on keep that failed. Very unusual design built to have a removable keel to facilitate trucking. We have beat this to death elsewhere.

In the vast majority of Steel or aluminum boats the keel simply can not fall off. It’s like saying “The hull fell off”, makes no sense.

Sorry but the article I read did not say anything that could be misconstrued as it referred to failure due to poorly welded keels and as a fibreglass builder and one who has overseen steel boat restoration I have yet to see a keel welded to anything other than a steel or aluminum boat.

[gjordan]

The only reason steel boats sail poorly is either poor design or poor building. Above 40 foot it is not hard for a GOOD DESIGNER to have a good sailing boat that is only marginally heavier than GRP. It is still possible to have a reasonably light boat in less than 40 feet, but it takes a very good designer and skilled builder to weld the thinner plate without wavy heat distortion. Many of the steel boat designs available are copies of older traditional boats that are not high performers in any build materiel. The quest for more strength has ruined many amateur built steel boats because the builders think a little extra here or there will make a safer boat. It actually makes for a poorly performing boat. I had a VanDestade (sp?) 37 foot sloop that went well on a reach but would not go to weather worth a darn. The reason was the original builder did not do the keel or rudder to the designers spec. and he screwed up and order his rigging a foot short so he cut a foot off of the mast. At the time I didnt know any better and after 2 years of sailing an engineless GRP boat thru coral passes I wanted a steel boat in the worst way. Keeping the boat looking good was a nightmare but that was all because the original prep was not done right. I would have bought another steel boat after I sold that one, but the wife said absolutely NO NO NO. There are many reasons for buying a steel cruising boat, but you better be sure it was built right in the first place. The difference between 3mm plate and 4mm plate (because the builder got a better price on the thicker plate) can ruin the performance of an otherwise good boat. This is just a lot of my thoughts on steel boats so take it for what you pay for the thoughts. _____Grant.

[nortonscove]

Originally Posted by shayski

I've been in the sailboat market for about a 1 1/2 years. Looking for a cruiser that I can live aboard for extended periods of time as well as a boat that can be sailed comfortably on ocean passages. The options are incredibly over whelming, to say the least. So many manufacturers, so many different sizes and features and the price goes from free to top dollar for the same make and model. I'm really quite tired of it and I'm more confused and farther away to making a purchase now then I was the day I started looking. But here's the reason for this on going rant, I have found a steel boat that from all intents and purposes is a top of the line, well maintained, well outfitted and pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. And the best thing about it is the boat is for sale for about a 1/4 of what it should be. Well here in lays the problem, the steel hull has some serious issues that are gonna need some attention, by all signs the hull was built well and right with the proper material, but there are probably about twenty-five small holes in the steel revealed after paint stripping and soda blasting. So it's gonna need some attention, obviously. Now I'm sure I can do the work myself, I have years of welding and metal fabrication in my past, and these are the things I love to do. But my questions are, is this a wise boat to purchase, what would cause these metal rusting issues? And would it be an on going issue or is there a procedure I can do that would stop this from continuously from happening. I guess what I'm looking for is some honest feedback on the positive and negative issues behind the purchase of a vessel with these problems and with a metal hull.

The type of steel used must be specified for the build. If it hasn't been approved for shipbuilding it will not be accepted by many insurance companies and will lead to these kinds of issues. The quality of the welds is also very important and are scanned while work is proceeding to ensure there are no voids as these will rust at an alarming rate if present. Not all steel or ships are equal and there is a reason the best come with a price tag that matches the build. We are presently putting a piece in a 40 metre tug that had tripped frames. The piece to be replaced probably measures 20 feet long by 6 feet high and the local dockyard had quoted 150k.

[klaaskootsra]

Originally Posted by shayski

I've been in the sailboat market for about a 1 1/2 years. Looking for a cruiser that I can live aboard for extended periods of time as well as a boat that can be sailed comfortably on ocean passages. The options are incredibly over whelming, to say the least. So many manufacturers, so many different sizes and features and the price goes from free to top dollar for the same make and model. I'm really quite tired of it and I'm more confused and farther away to making a purchase now then I was the day I started looking. But here's the reason for this on going rant, I have found a steel boat that from all intents and purposes is a top of the line, well maintained, well outfitted and pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. And the best thing about it is the boat is for sale for about a 1/4 of what it should be. Well here in lays the problem, the steel hull has some serious issues that are gonna need some attention, by all signs the hull was built well and right with the proper material, but there are probably about twenty-five small holes in the steel revealed after paint stripping and soda blasting. So it's gonna need some attention, obviously. Now I'm sure I can do the work myself, I have years of welding and metal fabrication in my past, and these are the things I love to do. But my questions are, is this a wise boat to purchase, what would cause these metal rusting issues? And would it be an on going issue or is there a procedure I can do that would stop this from continuously from happening. I guess what I'm looking for is some honest feedback on the positive and negative issues behind the purchase of a vessel with these problems and with a metal hull.

Sounds like electrolitic corrosion, due to a connect earth in the shore power.

[TJ D]

Originally Posted by Gaia

I beg to differ. Steel boats are not necessarily heavy. Or slow. Our Gazelle is steel and her junk rig makes her as fast off the wind as any FG boat her low of 38ft and loa of 42. We have sailed her around the world in 23 years and have never had to replace any steel in her hull. We have hit things and been glad of her strength. The last time was in a small tributary in French Guyana were we hit rocks hard enough to wet the decks on healing over but once in clear water could hardly find where we hit. We did not even feel the need to check the bilges.

Her strength is not only under water to which others have alluded. Our stanchions and railings will easily absorb a launched 200 lb man, or woman. Not many FG boats can claim that.

She has no rust, as that is simply a matter of care and not at all onerous. Steel boats are dry inside if well built and cared for and since rusting is only a serious issue if inside but cannot occur if dry then it becomes an imagined problem for those not in the know.

GAIA is, or was before we overloaded her, 18000 lbs displacement. A steel boat big enough need not be heavier than one of glass. Nor does she need to be 'ditched'.

Pardon me but that is ridiculous.

Jim

Whoa there, Jim!

I didn't say ALL steel boats were slow or heavy. I said MY steel boat was slow and heavy!!

No need to get your dander up.

[turtleofdart]

strength, watertightness, low cost, availability of steel plate anywhere in the world, the ease of construction and modification and the repair of even badly corroded sections... we own a small bilge keeled steel boat in the river dart and have replaced significant areas of rusted plating below the waterline BETWEEN TIDES! with scrap plate and no liftout. it can be a good material for the self reliant low budget cruising sailor. temporary repairs can be made with concrete which is strong and cheap... permanent repairs that are as strong as new only require an angle grinder and a welder...

contrary to most opinion steel is light as even 4-5mm plate is immensely strong.

magnetic deviation can be a pain as can electrolysis...

epoxy paint is a waste of time unless the preparation is perfect and painting liberal. we use owatrol and oil based paints and compressed air chipping hammers for surface prep.

don't get me wrong, restoring a rusty steel boat is a noisy, dirty and unsociable business but you get complete watertightness and strength CHEAPLY....

[Gaia]

Originally Posted by TJ D

Whoa there, Jim!

I didn't say ALL steel boats were slow or heavy. I said MY steel boat was slow and heavy!!

No need to get your dander up.

Dander is down TJD 😊 I was reacting, perhaps too quickly, to 'ditching' a steel boat that might have taken you on that once in a lifetime expedition, only because she was steel.

Jim

[buzzstar]

I am surprised that there has been no mention of titanium in the <40 foot category. Sheet titanium can be had in fairly thin but strong pieces, and prices, while stiff are not all that unthinkable. Moreover, the cutting, shaping, and welding skills are definitely no longer uncommon. The only question is, where does it fit with other options (steel, aluminium, glass, wood, carbon fiber) in strength, durability, maintenance, repair, and cost, etc. If I were in a slightly different situation, I'd be tempted to give it a go in a beloved hull design, sail plan, and interior configuration.

[Cyrus Safdari]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Among cruisers who replace their boat after several years of bluewater cruising, it is common to select a metal boat.

I very much question this assettion. If anything the reverse is true in tropical waters.

Metal hulls are stronger if you bump into things. But thats not really the biggest concern unless youre ib iceberg waters or uncharted shoals. There us much greater safety in being able to get out if the way quicker in a lighter boat and not bump into things in the first place.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by nortonscove

Sorry but the article I read did not say anything that could be misconstrued as it referred to failure due to poorly welded keels and as a fibreglass builder and one who has overseen steel boat restoration I have yet to see a keel welded to anything other than a steel or aluminum boat.

Perhaps your bias as a plastic boat builder failed to take in the key denominator.... "Poorly welded/constructed" in claiming... welded steel keels fall off!
As others said.... ridiculous statement!
Anything poorly constructed (including that article) fails the test.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Perhaps your bias as a plastic boat builder failed to take in the key denominator.... "Poorly welded/constructed" in claiming... welded steel keels fall off!
As others said.... ridiculous statement!
Anything poorly constructed (including that article) fails the test.

I would love for someone to post a link to “that article.” Just so we can go to the source and read what it really said.

[Pelagic]

Sandblasted and ultrasounded after 30 years of world cruising and who knows how many bumps in the night.... my Dutch built Corten steel hull remains almost perfect with thickness still at millspec (less blasting)

Minor fairing for 14" below the waterline, and no hungry horse frames after many rough sea passages, this yacht will survive us, if properly maintained


The inside shell still has the original perfectly prepared and applied coating (which is the secret to steel hull longevity as they rust from the inside>out.

The steel decks and house are completely integral with the hull and waterproof with immensely strong mooring points and combings

The bottom line is all about good construction techniques, proper materials and devoted maintenance management.

The only problems I found is where the builder drilled holes in steel for Teak cosmetics and surrounds. They lasted 30 years and thanks to Corten, no steel needed replacing, but I replaced the teak with composite forms epoxied in place

Living and cruising the Western Pacific, SE Asia, where lack of yacht safety support, infrastructure and Typhoons makes cruising more challenging, Having a strong forgiving hull and house is a priority that can be maintained with just commercial facilities and a bit of imagination available