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ZULU40 · 21-05-2018, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaia

Sorry, I meant traditional steel sailboat. Not wood of course. It is known as a Skutsje I believe but might have the spelling wrong.

skutsje
Originally sailing barges plying the canals and lowlands of the Frisian coast between Holland and Germany, the area where the novel/book 'Riddle of the Sands' takes place. Now common traditional pleasure yachts; also pretty common in steel and available as new builds in steel with a smattering of wood to make them interesting.

Velella99 · 07-07-2018, 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleofdart

strength, watertightness, low cost, availability of steel plate anywhere in the world, the ease of construction and modification and the repair of even badly corroded sections... we own a small bilge keeled steel boat in the river dart and have replaced significant areas of rusted plating below the waterline BETWEEN TIDES! with scrap plate and no liftout. it can be a good material for the self reliant low budget cruising sailor. temporary repairs can be made with concrete which is strong and cheap... permanent repairs that are as strong as new only require an angle grinder and a welder...

contrary to most opinion steel is light as even 4-5mm plate is immensely strong.

magnetic deviation can be a pain as can electrolysis...

epoxy paint is a waste of time unless the preparation is perfect and painting liberal. we use owatrol and oil based paints and compressed air chipping hammers for surface prep.

don't get me wrong, restoring a rusty steel boat is a noisy, dirty and unsociable business but you get complete watertightness and strength CHEAPLY....

Hi Turtleofdart I'm in the middle of a maintenance campaign on our 43 foot Roberts steel ketch and your comment about Owatrol and oil based paints really caught my eye. I'm very interested because like you I believe unless you can dry blast to white metal I'm getting the feeling that the epoxy and polyurethane two packs just end up corroding underneath even with the use of the tannate or phosphate rust converters first. I'd be grateful if you could give me a brief overview on the use of these because I'm a will give this a shot. I had a look at the Owatrol website but I'd rather hear application hint from a yachty who has actually done it.

valhalla360 · 07-07-2018, 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZULU40

the auto industry was virtually forced to overcome corrosion because of the use of salt in de-icing roads, some of it from makers themselves, some by legislation.

,

Did they overcome corrosion this spring?

Hang out in the midwest and it's hard to find a 10yr old truck that isn't rusty.

valhalla360 · 07-07-2018, 08:47

Until we see statistical evidence to the contrary, the original premise is false.

The vast majority of experienced cruisers have GRP hulls.

Eventide · 07-07-2018, 10:18

Good friend has a constant lament with his steel boat - RUST NEVER SLEEPS.

**boatman61** · 07-07-2018, 10:40

Have had 15 boats.. 1st was wood.. Last was steel...
Number 16 will be plastic..

**hpeer** · 07-07-2018, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velella99

Hi Turtleofdart I'm in the middle of a maintenance campaign on our 43 foot Roberts steel ketch and your comment about Owatrol and oil based paints really caught my eye. I'm very interested because like you I believe unless you can dry blast to white metal I'm getting the feeling that the epoxy and polyurethane two packs just end up corroding underneath even with the use of the tannate or phosphate rust converters first. I'd be grateful if you could give me a brief overview on the use of these because I'm a will give this a shot. I had a look at the Owatrol website but I'd rather hear application hint from a yachty who has actually done it.

I too would like to hear your comments. I’ve never heard of the stuff. We are currently using Petit RistLoc above the water line. High aluminum content 1 part paint. Goes on well but runny, dries quick, but needs multiple coats - like 3 in the bulge and 5 on deck. I’m using 7 when I can. I also use it on my prop, I’ve heard of others doing that as well. I can NOT keep a shaft anode on. So the aluminum is serving as an anode on the prop, no negative issues at all. Seems to be doing the trick.

http://www.pettitpaint.com/products/...-steel-primer/

Is this the mix you are using?
https://www.owatrolusa.com/product/owatrol-alu/

The biggest problem I’ve had is it welds the can top shut. We now transfer a can content into some Ball jars and put aluminum foil under the lid to help seal it. I can generally get the lid off, if I can’t I cut the lid with a knife. At worst minimizes waste.

Been using it a couple of years and seems to be working pretty darn well.

Are there others who have been using this stuff?

RaymondR · 07-07-2018, 17:17

I owned a steel boat for 28 years and coastal cruised it for 15 of those. It's a great material for the over-adventurous, the navigationally careless, poor anchorers, container-paranoid etc.

I'd say about 70% of the maintenance problems I had with the boat were because of design faults (It should be a criminal offense to put stringers in a steel boat) and the rest due to neglect on my part as I became older and lazier.

The major maintenance issue was internal corrosion caused from the hull plating lying against the edges of the frames and stringers. There is no access for proper blasting and painting. This problem was exacerbated by a failure to keep water outside the hull which was mainly caused by using an old style stern gland and the rudder tube being too short. A PSS gland fixed the first problem and a DIY gland in the rudder tube the second, unfortunately much of the corrosion damage had already taken place.

However repairs to the steel hull were exceptionally easily done with the replacement of one small section of hull plate being completed in about 40 minutes.

The hull had a number of fairly significant dings in it which would have resulted in at least holes in any other material and one the sinking of the vessel and I did spend a night on a reef once. I also have a friend who spent 43 days on a reef before being dragged off by two trawlers and no other non-metal material would have survived that without destruction or significant damage.

Would I have another one? Yes, but I would be very particular that it was designed with long term maintenance in view.

Pelagic · 07-07-2018, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaymondR

I owned a steel boat for 28 years and coastal cruised it for 15 of those. It's a great material for the over-adventurous, the navigationally careless, poor anchorers, container-paranoid etc.

I'd say about 70% of the maintenance problems I had with the boat were because of design faults (It should be a criminal offense to put stringers in a steel boat) and the rest due to neglect on my part as I became older and lazier.

Hi Raymond, the problem is not always with the design, but the execution!

Im a big fan of good Dutch metal boat builders and having been fortunate enough to be project manager for Feadships and to see how my own Dutch steel boat was constructed the same way with stringers....it is all about execution!

Here are shots of my boat launched in 1983 going thru a complete rewiring and insulation refit in 2015

The Green is the original epoxy coating on the inside.
Note that both the Stringers and Frames are not placed hard against the shell but float above it on thier weld points so that preperation and paint can be applied in the Gap.

Continuous welds in any place that water could lie.

The worst area was underneath the Battery Box, Hydraulic area and main AC compresser. Years of hydraulic oil, condensate leaks and Battery acid had eaten away at the ply shelf and corroded the bolts.
But if you look at the framses and stringers.....No Rust!

We didnt need to recoat the shell and stringers with new paint, but we did anyway.
I can attest.... the steel around the frames and stringers of my 35 year old boat is still like new.
That is due to proper execution by the excellent dutch builders.

RaymondR · 08-07-2018, 19:30

Pretty solid looking boat and it looks like you keep her nice and clean.

Had I built another steel boat my solution was to avoid stringers and have part frames between the full frames. I would also cut 1 1/4" square 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4" slugs from flat bar and tack them to the frames by their corners before plating then fully weld the to the plate and frames thereby achieving two purposes, the first to hold the plate away from the frames to allow drainage of any water which got into the boat and, the second to impart a slight compound curve to the plate which keeps it from buckling when welding around the periphery. The alternative was frameless with similar treatment to the few frames they require.

**hpeer** · 09-07-2018, 05:27

Our big boat, 44’, has the plates welded to 1” solid bar, no stringers.

I’ve seen boats where the plates have been asked overlapping, lapstrake style. The doubling takes the place of stringers I think.

steamgoat · 09-07-2018, 06:30

Just for interest,here's the inside of a joshua,no stringers.

SV THIRD DAY · 09-07-2018, 06:55

I don't think they are popular among season Cruisers. I've been a live-aboard cruiser for 10 years and looking at this cruising Fleet by far the smallest percentage of boats out here are metal boats. The standard boat is good old fiberglass, now I'm not saying metal boats are bad and don't have positive characteristics I'm just saying the premise of the original posters question is incorrect.

The preferred boat of a season Cruiser is fiberglass simply by looking at the numbers not metal.