Which of two boats or just talk me out of either

[stevenm2016]

I apologize in advance for asking this question. I've seen other posts asking similar questions and the conversations definitely take different paths.


So, I am currently between boats and trying to decide between a Cheoy Lee Pedrick 41 sloop or a Hughes 40 ketch. Maybe I'll be able to figure it out by typing this. Not intending to live aboard full time but plan on taking week long or longer trips. Who knows what will happen in future. Maybe we all sail away during the coronavirus (zombie) apocalypse or after the riots start from the next election.



I have never sailed a hughes 40 and assume its a pig in water. The pedrick probably sails much better. They both look visually nice. They both have same amount of wear and tear.



The center cockpit is deep and comfortable on the hughes. The pedrick is your normal aft cockpit. A nice dodger and bimini and wont get wet.



Galley in pedrick is larger and set up for more than 1 person to be working in it. The hughes galley is in the corner. The hughes is much larger and spacious feeling below. Also has the aft cabin which can easily be made into a full birth.


Disp/len of hughes is 419 vs 299 for the pedrick. The hughes wont feel a thing in heavy seas or under way. That's assuming there's enough wind to get under way.



To answer the question of what's most important for me, I just want to go sailing and not motoring


Thanks in advance

[Paul L]

You don't say where you plan to sail. Assuming it is in a typical weather area, I'd go for the one that sails faster. You can compare by checking the boat's PHRF rating. No point in spending your week motoring, if what you want is sailing.

[Sparx]

Ok, just for fun, since you asked. Please take my seriously uninformed opinion for what it is worth. Your choice should reflect your intended sailing grounds and your sailing attitude.

I did a quick internet search to get some perspectives. Both boats are substantial and from an era where boats were generally built heavy and solid. Both have good pedigrees. Neither is fast by current standards.

Choi Lee Pedric 41:
The bigger galley is a plus, but the rest of the interior is nothing special for its class. The aft cabin might be used offshore or for ocassional guests, but on most boats this ends up as storage or worse.

The deep keel and lighter weight will be better sailing, but this boat is not fast compared to more modern boats. The deep keel will be limiting for the Chesapeake, ICW or Bahamas.

Hughes 41 ketch:
I like a center cockpit, especially offshore. Usually it takes more than 41 feet to balance a good center cockpit with quality space below deck, however this boat seems to pull it off. The wide beam helps. This is a substantially larger boat than the Pedric. The aft cabin is a big asset, and forward is a much better layout for accommodating guest or long term onboard living. The wide beam gives large storage spaces can be filled with every toy imaginable without seriously compromising performance.

This ketch rig will be useful when the wind is up. I generally prefer a larger mizzen, but this sail plan is typical for its era. This mizzen will likely be helpful only in specific conditions and to much trouble for short day sails. On passage the ketch rig is great for balancing the helm and giving a steady ride in a variety of conditions.

The wide beam, heavy displacement, and ketch rig will be great when conditions are rough. In my experience these heavy boats need some time to get up to speed, but once there they thunder along with a steady motion that is less fatiguing for the crew. In less than 15 knots wind this boat will be motoring. This boat will not point, so will also be motoring comfortably when other boats are bashing their way to weather. At anchor the heavy wide beam will be steady. The shallower draft opens up MUCH more of the Chesapeake and Bahamas, and is a total non concern in the ICW.

This boat might be slightly slower, but at the end of the day will arrive at the anchorage no more than a few minutes behind the Pedric, having enjoyed a comfortable day on the water.

So my recommendation is the Hughes. This conclusion surprised me, it is opposite my initial reaction.

[stevenm2016]

The hughes 40 PHRF average is 180 vs 138 for the Pedrick 41

[CassidyNZ]

The ketch is marginally heavier than the sloop but 12000kgs is not out of range for a 40ft ketch, it wouldn’t scare me. Whilst I’m not a fan of ketches, I have friends that circumnavigated in one twice and found it very good for long range cruising. If you’re planning local sailing this (for me) becomes a disadvantage. Also the age would imply a lot of essential gear could quite dated/obsolete.

A centre cockpit is a wet place at sea and a customary dodger just wont cut it in my opinion (and done a lot of voyaging in one). I have a complete cockpit enclosure to keep us dry at sea. I wouldn’t contemplate a passage without it.

Looking at the specs very quickly, it is clear to me the ketch has superior accommodation with an aft cabin and a decent forepeak, two heads and a nice galley. My boat has all that and it is a nice place to live on the hook.

Lastly, Sparkman & Stevens never designed too many dogs so I’d be surprised if this boat really was a “pig in water”.

The Pedrick is newer, will be simpler sailing, lower maintenance costs, probably will go to weather better but the accommodation is comparatively rudimentary.

So I guess you need (as others have noted) to decide what sort of sailing you’re likely to do most. My choice (despite not being a ketch fan) would the Hughes but then I do quite a lot of voyaging and live on my boat for half of every year.

[Ken Fry]

Originally Posted by stevenm2016

Disp/len of hughes is 419 vs 299 for the pedrick.

The Hughes should not be considered a boat. DLR's over 400 belong to things like anchors and elephants. Sorry... only kidding.

[Ken Fry]

The Pedric is clearly faster, and almost certainly more responsive. To my eye, it is also rather good looking, while the Hughes is just awful. If sailing is important, then you will have more fun with the Pedric, and will spend less time motoring.

[JPA Cate]

If the Hughes was built in Canada, it will more likely have good s/s in it than a boat built in China, where in the early years, some of it was really shoddy. Of course, there are more chainplates to consider!

If that particular Cheoy Lee has the offset companionway, there are some aspects to that that I would not prefer, I like coming down the middle. If it still has iron tanks, they will need to be replaced, so consider if you're happy to destroy the joinery to get them out.

If either one has teak decks, that's something you'll want to think about replacing. And sometimes the decks on some of those Taiwanese boats are plywood, with 3-5,000 screw holes per deck for you to discover which ones were leaking and started the plywood rot.

I really do not think much of either of them. The ketch will sail too much like a turd, and the Cheoy Lee you will probably find cramped for its length, but be a more pleasant one to sail. Some of those older Cheoy Lee boats, the cockpit lockers did not seal well, and you could flood clear down into the boat through them. It is something [else] to check out, as one of the jobs of the boat is to keep the water on the outside.

Here's a link to a thread with a couple of additional links in it that might interest you: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...at-187144.html

But, everybody's values are different, and if you're asking a bunch of strangers for their comments, maybe you need to look at a few more boats, or possibly get on as crew and sail on other people's boats, and experience more of what they're like, so that you can better inform your choices.

Ann

[Michael Cobbe]

We had a ketch and they heel less because of the lower sails, we never got the toe rail in the water as you can with the sloops that we sailed when chartering.

[slug]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

The ketch is marginally heavier than the sloop but 12000kgs is not out of range for a 40ft ketch, it wouldn’t scare me. Whilst I’m not a fan of ketches, I have friends that circumnavigated in one twice and found it very good for long range cruising. If you’re planning local sailing this (for me) becomes a disadvantage. Also the age would imply a lot of essential gear could quite dated/obsolete.

A centre cockpit is a wet place at sea and a customary dodger just wont cut it in my opinion (and done a lot of voyaging in one). I have a complete cockpit enclosure to keep us dry at sea. I wouldn’t contemplate a passage without it.

Looking at the specs very quickly, it is clear to me the ketch has superior accommodation with an aft cabin and a decent forepeak, two heads and a nice galley. My boat has all that and it is a nice place to live on the hook.

Lastly, Sparkman & Stevens never designed too many dogs so I’d be surprised if this boat really was a “pig in water”.

The Pedrick is newer, will be simpler sailing, lower maintenance costs, probably will go to weather better but the accommodation is comparatively rudimentary.

So I guess you need (as others have noted) to decide what sort of sailing you’re likely to do most. My choice (despite not being a ketch fan) would the Hughes but then I do quite a lot of voyaging and live on my boat for half of every year.

You must consider the practicable day to day functionality of the boats

I can see right off that the ketch is main mast forward

You will not have enough space in the fore triangle to store your +- 3m dingy

When maneuvering around docks a ketch is a monster. Windage and rigging in the way

Ketches are nice.... when the boat is longer than 65 ft

Small ketches are hard to live with

[billburr]

Neither. Get a Spencer 1330, Center cockpit sloop. Best offshore boat ever!

[MJH]

Originally Posted by stevenm2016

I apologize in advance for asking this question. I've seen other posts asking similar questions and the conversations definitely take different paths.

So, I am currently between boats and trying to decide between a Cheoy Lee Pedrick 41 sloop or a Hughes 40 ketch. Maybe I'll be able to figure it out by typing this. Not intending to live aboard full time but plan on taking week long or longer trips. Who knows what will happen in future. Maybe we all sail away during the coronavirus (zombie) apocalypse or after the riots start from the next election.

I have never sailed a hughes 40 and assume its a pig in water. The pedrick probably sails much better. They both look visually nice. They both have same amount of wear and tear.

The center cockpit is deep and comfortable on the hughes. The pedrick is your normal aft cockpit. A nice dodger and bimini and wont get wet.

Galley in pedrick is larger and set up for more than 1 person to be working in it. The hughes galley is in the corner. The hughes is much larger and spacious feeling below. Also has the aft cabin which can easily be made into a full birth.

Disp/len of hughes is 419 vs 299 for the pedrick. The hughes wont feel a thing in heavy seas or under way. That's assuming there's enough wind to get under way.

To answer the question of what's most important for me, I just want to go sailing and not motoring

Thanks in advance

I've run the ratios and the Cheoy Lee Pedrick 41 should be faster and I find the Hughes 13.6 SA/D troubling. Both have fin keels with skegs so that is a plus for both but the Hughes fin is longer so it should track a little better. The additional 5,000 lbs. in the Hughes displacement and shorter LWL cause the slower speed but produce a better COMFORT ratio that is welcomed on a long passage. The Hughes also sports larger water tank capacity conducive to longer passages. The CAPSIZE ratios of both are acceptable with the Hughes a slight edge better. The Hughes is an older design (1975) but S&S design team have a great reputation. Saildata.com says the Pedrick 41 was manufactured 1982-1994 which my offer some design/manufacturing advances. The large Hughes aft cabin may not be of much value on a passage as the smoothest ride will be amidships.

Both have the potential to get you where you want to go. It is up to you to decide where the your love truly lies.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[Tillerjockey]

PHRF is really a function of how well a boat goes to weather. It's calculated based on boats going around in circles. A boat with a lower phrf generally goes better to windward than a higher phrf. On a reach the SA/D and D/L will be a better indicator of overall sailing speed. A SA/D of 13.6 means she will be very slow in light winds.

[j.g.evans]

Try to find owners of each boat. I have found them very honest and informative. Look for reviews at a boat owners association. I like a fast boat and have avoided some dogs this way. I have won many races on the boats I selected.
A 40' boat is a great size for day sailing and living aboard. I recently sold a 40' boat that I spent 6 winters on in the Bahamas. I recommend looking for a draft no more than 5', a lead keel and a mast height less the 63'. A generic boat may be easier to get reviews on and eventually sell. Remember that 2 cruising boats going in the same direction is a race. Do it.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Tillerjockey

PHRF is really a function of how well a boat goes to weather. It's calculated based on boats going around in circles. A boat with a lower phrf generally goes better to windward than a higher phrf. On a reach the SA/D and D/L will be a better indicator of overall sailing speed. A SA/D of 13.6 means she will be very slow in light winds.

PHRF is an observed rating that includes upwind, downwind and reaching. And the ratings are easily available for many boats.
All boats sail well on a reach. It's the easiest point of sail to get a boat moving.