What Makes a Boat 'Bluewater' ?

[sailorboy1]

A "blue water boat" is a boat that some people can own to allow them to be smug and condenscending towards others.

[dennisail]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

A "blue water boat" is a boat that some people can own to allow them to be smug and condenscending towards others.

Being in a small cramped space with no ventilation or lighting while traveling at 4K will make some people bitter.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by dennisail

Being in a small cramped space with no ventilation or lighting while traveling at 4K will make some people bitter.

ROFL

[Seahunter]

The skipper.

[Sand crab]

A washer/dryer. I thought we all agreed on this earlier. BOB

[Seahunter]

LOL, yes but if the skipper doesn't know how to load the machine you just have to stay tied up in the marina.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

It seems like if you have to ask the general bluewater boat question then you aren't ready for bluewater sailing...Kind of a Catch-22.

There's only about 1000 dimensions to the answer.

He didn't say that his dream was to sail around the world IMMEDIATELY. It sounded to me as if he wants to buy the right boat so he can do that some day. Surely he will learn how to sail first.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by psneeld

After 23 years in the USCG I was amazed at how many boaters needed rescuing because they took the advice "that you really don't need much experience"...

But then again... you know how many "experienced" boaters get saved every year????

So in one aspect you are correct...THINKING you are experienced isn't really a good answer either...

I totally agree that anyone asking the basics of whether a boat is capable isn't CLOSE to being ready. THOSE of us in the know understand that almost ANY boat can be made ready or ...but you have to start with a skipper that knows that.

The thing is, no matter how experienced you are, you're only experienced at what you're experienced in. You get caught by an experience you have no prior ... well ... experience for, and you're going to have to rely on your wits, your common sense, and what you've heard and read.

A de-masting comes to mind immediately. I just saw a video of a team who deliberately de-masted a boat in an experiment to try to determine how it would happen under certain circumstances.

They were experienced. They still really had their hands full. They were able to break the mast on command, but dealing with the aftermath presented challenges they hadn't faced before.

Sailing is inherently dangerous. But so is snow-skiing, and riding a motorcycle, and eating some forms of sushi. You can't be 100% safe. Staying home won't do it; "they" say that most injuries happen in the home.

So pick your poison, learn all you can (and don't stop that), and take your chances.

[goboatingnow]

The thing is, no matter how experienced you are, you're only experienced at what you're experienced in. You get caught by an experience you have no prior ... well ... experience for, and you're going to have to rely on your wits, your common sense, and what you've heard and read.

yes Donald, ..... my heads spinning

[ABK]

My Thoughts? What they are worth? Well, I was a powerboat owner and jumped into sailing about 5 years ago. I bought a old Macgregor and the book Sailing for Dummies.

The marine experience I already had for 40 plus years was a good basis to build on. The book had great information and I was sailing in a matter of minutes.

4 Years on a River and I was ready to coastal cruise. I put her in Atlantic City and had a great time last year. No real problems either.

But knowledge of the weather and ocean conditions were a big plus.

This summer I chartered a Jeanneau 39 on the Chesapeake and it was also great.

What am I getting at? It took me 5 years to get the experience I felt i needed to do what I did.

As for an oceanic voyage now? Not ready... I would think you would have to be out of your mind to just sail away. Life is too short and doing just that may make it even shorter.

Everything including sailing has a learning curve and the curve is never ending in my humble opinion.

The picture of anyone in heavy seas and weather with little experience is frightening.

Spend at least a few weeks sailing before trying to conquer the "Blue Water"...
Maybe a little longer (tongue in cheek) would be advisable.

IMHO...

ABK

Bruce

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

yes Donald, ..... my heads spinning

" The thing is, no matter how experienced you are, you're only experienced at what you're experienced in. You get caught by an experience you have no prior ... well ... experience for, and you're going to have to rely on your wits, your common sense, and what you've heard and read.

yes Donald, ..... my heads spinning "

What does that mean?

Remember the four football players who took an inadequate boat out into the Gulf of Mexico without checking the weather? Then they anchored badly from the stern, couldn't get the anchor up, didn't want to cut the rode, and flipped the boat. They were out way too far for the boat they were on, and they didn't have an EPIRB.

Three out of the four drowned.

They were "experienced." What that really meant is that they'd been reckless before but got away with it.

The front that flipped their boat had been forecast for days. We all knew it was going to be bad, and no one from my sailing club went out that day. But they did, and based on their "experience" thought they were safe.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by ABK

My Thoughts? What they are worth? Well, I was a powerboat owner and jumped into sailing about 5 years ago. I bought a old Macgregor and the book Sailing for Dummies.

The marine experience I already had for 40 plus years was a good basis to build on. The book had great information and I was sailing in a matter of minutes.

4 Years on a River and I was ready to coastal cruise. I put her in Atlantic City and had a great time last year. No real problems either.

But knowledge of the weather and ocean conditions were a big plus.

This summer I chartered a Jeanneau 39 on the Chesapeake and it was also great.

What am I getting at? It took me 5 years to get the experience I felt i needed to do what I did.

As for an oceanic voyage now? Not ready... I would think you would have to be out of your mind to just sail away. Life is too short and doing just that may make it even shorter.

Everything including sailing has a learning curve and the curve is never ending in my humble opinion.

The picture of anyone in heavy seas and weather with little experience is frightening.

Spend at least a few weeks sailing before trying to conquer the "Blue Water"...
Maybe a little longer (tongue in cheek) would be advisable.

IMHO...

ABK

Bruce

Yay -- another "Sailing for Dummies" fan!

I read that book right after I started sailing, and it educated me on something very important -- what it meant to have a "lee shore." So when I got caught in rough waters and my sailing companion wanted to take our partially disabled boat closer to shore, I knew that was a very bad choice and took it further out to sea until Sea Tow got there. By the time Sea Tow got there we were in a fair amount of trouble -- but we weren't near the lee shore in a rough surf.

You can't completely learn to sail from books, but books in addition to experience and lessons can be a really good thing.

[David_Old_Jersey]

What Makes a Boat 'Bluewater' ?

The Marketing Department?

[engele]

I think what makes a boat a "bluewater boat" is a skipper's willingness to take it offshore, and a build quality that has allowed a significant number of similar boats to do the same (not that a unique boat might not be even tougher and better).. traditional definitions of a full keel cruiser with a lot of ballast aren't as universal any longer. Motion comfort index numbers seem to mean less to the sailing community as well. Overall it really comes down to the owner. You can take a boat, really any boat, and make it tougher. If you wait on weather you can take a less tough boat just about anywhere a tough boat would go. The irony of the "Blue Water" boat argument is that one "blue water" boat owner will talk down to another as though the second isn't really a bluewater boat. So the Hinkley owner talks down to the Valient owner who talks down to the hans christian owner. All of their boats are capable of taking them anywhere and haver a track record of doing it, but the Hinkley owner will know all of the details about why Hinkley chainplates are better than hans christians. While those three argue, there is a stream of Catalina, multihull, and other production sailboats leaving the marina to cross an ocean. There are real things to be said for things like motion comfort, and full keels, in the same way there are real benefits to the speed some of the cats have. Solid chainplates, appropriate sized rigging, good cockpit drainage, a good righting moment, and standing headroom are things I would value on a cruising boat, regardless of whether I were putting an offshore trip together or a trip down the coast. I would be willing to give up righting moment for the speed and stability of a multihull too given the right boat and still consider the boat "Bluewater capable"

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

" The thing is, no matter how experienced you are, you're only experienced at what you're experienced in. You get caught by an experience you have no prior ... well ... experience for, and you're going to have to rely on your wits, your common sense, and what you've heard and read.

yes Donald, ..... my heads spinning "

What does that mean?

Remember the four football players who took an inadequate boat out into the Gulf of Mexico without checking the weather? Then they anchored badly from the stern, couldn't get the anchor up, didn't want to cut the rode, and flipped the boat. They were out way too far for the boat they were on, and they didn't have an EPIRB.

Three out of the four drowned.

They were "experienced." What that really meant is that they'd been reckless before but got away with it.

The front that flipped their boat had been forecast for days. We all knew it was going to be bad, and no one from my sailing club went out that day. But they did, and based on their "experience" thought they were safe.

Your example of the 4 football players is not a good example from what I have read of the story. I heard they were not "anchored" from the stern but retied the anchor line to the stern to break the anchor free. The boat was most certainly capable of handling the weather they encountered...boats like that do all the time. You would make a better point by refering to the Capacity plate info...I think that's where the issue was out of control...but that's my "accident investigator training" coming out.

As far as not being ready to deal with something you have never experienced...maybe you should read up on some NASA proceedures...they helped pioneer the concept of being of being ready for the unexpected.