Van de Stadt 36 Flush deck

[Boxertwinjeff]

Hello, has anyone knowledge or experience on this particular model.
I don't know much on them, though I have heard they're supposed to be a fast boat with good upwind performance? I'm going to be viewing one soon with the plan to liveaboard, is built of 1/4 inch plate. Any help will be
greatly appreciated.

[Boxertwinjeff]

Also, what detrimental effect on performance etc could the heavier gauge hull have
excepting the obvious weight increase.

[Snowpetrel]

Hi, I like them, for what thats worth... They might have some 6mm plate in the lowest panels, but be careful if its overbuilt, steel is already heavy, and those smaller flush deck designs would tend to have stability issues if built from heavy plate. I would not want more than about 4mm topsides and 3.2mm decks on a boat like her.

Take what the broker or even owner says about plate thickness with a pinch of salt. Often numbers are plucked from thin air. A good surveyor can verifiy the plate thickness with ultrasound, and the builder might know.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Boxertwinjeff]

Thanks for your valued comment Ben, all good down here at Casey, settling in for the winter.

[HankOnthewater]

Is that model a "Seal"? If one lookes up the vandeStadt designs Van de Stadt Design - Yacht Designers and Naval Architects, there are eleven 36 ft (11.0 metre) designs.
Hmm, I know of two Seals and sailed and worked on one of them but they were both roundbilge.
They have lots of freeboard meaning lots of space for a 36 footer inside. I cannot remember that boat as being fast or sailing well to windward. It had also a steel fixed dodger. Initially very tender. The ones I know, were certainly not built in 1/4" plate or 6 mm, more like 4 mm.

Six mm is very heavy plating for a 36 foot boat, and when built in 6 mm, will not be a fast boat.

As a coincidence, the Seal I know, has a near identical name as the one in the photo.

[Boxertwinjeff]

I've since googled them Hank, and had a look on the VDS website, yes it appears to be a SEAL, though not stated in the Brokers advertisement,
has the Aft Cabin too, & a BMW 50hp,.. it could very well be that yacht you know, its in Manly Brisbane, the Broker's advert states the displacement as being 12 to 13 ton, should be around 10 ton going on other Seals I found on sale in Europe. I'm after a roomy liveaboard, a Safe, Strong Sailboat for Coastal Cruising the Australian East Coast with reasonable performance, & preferably with an aft Cabin, seems to tick all the boxes, does'nt need to be a Passage maker. Should I be scared off by the displacement?
I put what I think is a low offer to the Broker...25K, half of the asking price, he says my offer has a good chance of being excepted, but he stated "if you want to go through a Survey, then low offers don't work"...his words, that sounds wrong to me, one would be brave buying a steel boat without having it surveyed I would think...any opinions?

[olaf hart]

Either the broker knows it won't pass survey, or knows there are problems that will bring the price down after survey.

I would take a mate who knows boats and give it a good going over, you should pick most of the big issues.

I would then offer the low price as a fixed price, subject to survey.

The deal would be no negotiation after survey, if there are issues that are not disclosed, or you do not find, you walk away.

That puts the pressure on the owner and broker to make a full disclosure.

[Snowpetrel]

+1, get a good survey, and not with a surveyor reccomended by the broker, ship in your own surveyor. You can negotiate a low price, without survey, and make your offer subject to survey, but you cant expect to then get much further off if the surveyor finds a few problems, but at least you will know what you are getting, and have the option to bail out if its got major problems.

As far as the design goes, I would expect it to be a good offshore boat. Only real downsides of this type of boat are the dark interior, and the potentially lower stability and performance compared to a typical fibreglass boat. Van der stadt designs nice boats. It doesnt look too overweight in the photo.

All the best for the long night!

[HankOnthewater]

Originally Posted by Boxertwinjeff

.. it could very well be that yacht you know, its in Manly Brisbane,....

No, the advertised boat is not the boat I know; that is still on the West Coast, and that has a poop deck, ie 200 or 300 mm raised aft deck to give more headroom in the aftcabin, and it has solid handrailing all round.

The other Seal I know started its trip in Fremantle to go around Oz about 4 years ago, have not seen that again.

The price of the boat is all about how well the boat is maintained and the presence or lack of good equipment.

If you are a gambling man, by all means put an low offer in, without being subject to further survey. You might get lucky.
Olaf made some good comments, in my opinion.

To sail around Oz with 1 to 3 crew? I think such boat could be very suited to such task. However I have no experience with BMW engines.

[Fore and Aft]

The 50hp BMW diesel is interesting, I am fairly sure I have never seen one in any yacht I have surveyed before? Certainly I would be checking availability of spare parts and just how many hours it has done. I would say this could be a good reason why you might be getting the boat cheap as well. What about the age of the rigging, over ten years old and it will be hard to get that insured. Not that it is a big expense, but all these items start to ad up on a bargain yacht.
You need a survey, like I say to my customers you need someone without the rose coloured glasses when buying a boat. Plus here in Australia the first thing an insurance company will ask you for is a current survey. Just a rough idea, it should be around $720 to survey a 36 foot yacht.
Thanks
Drew

[Mike Banks]

If the deck is steel, this is weight in the place most likely to affect stability.

Usually they are thicker in the bottom plate, 6mm, then 5mm sides or less--then 3mm decks or have instead plywood glassed over and bolted to stainless steel deck shelves, but whether Van de Stat do this I can not say.

The designs are very well thought out, but often builders make changes--and some 9f those changes ruin the whole boat.

If she is too heavy--leave her. One can not add sufficient mass in the keel to make her more stable without her having excessive draft and insufficient freeboard.



The WORST thing one can do with a steel hull is to exceed the design specifications. The material is already extremely strong--and to do so makes no sense.

[CaptWil]

Hi Jeff
A good VDS Seal 36 built as per plan and well setup should be around USD40-60K
Anything under these figures and you might as well triple what it will cost you in the end of your offer price
VDS are well designed boats, well ahead of their time. The Seal is a perfect live aboard for a single person or couple
Mine is the Extra Wide version at 3.56M width and everyone that comes onboard is just blown away by the spacious interior of this 36 footer
Well proven offshore cruiser, no stability issues at all, reef ontime and you will have a great sailing even in bad weather. The flash deck is no issue and you can add extra small deck light holes. I have 1 and also an extra smaller hatch above the galley
My interior is far from darker feel as we used white melamine for ceiling covers and some wall paneling
It's a fast sailer for 12 Tonnes and points well into wind
Now remember for Oz, if you live aboard, you need holding tanks for your grey and black waters...
Also make sure the house bank batteries are sufficient for your need ( generally you need about 400-500 amps in total, giving you 50% useable) and a suitable charging facility everyday, either solar, wind or generator
Basically a used boat even in good nick, you double the purchase price in upgrade and maintenance, so plan your budget accordingly
Insurance, well yeah it's a rip off industry but you need it in some marinas and other locations. The figures quoted in other posts for the survey and insurance cover is about right
Sailing is a great life style but it can also be a money pit so beware
Ok enough ranting keep us posted

oh yeah look at this Seal in Malaysia, Ozzie friend of mine, built in Brisbane. He has another 50' now over here and keen to sell Zeke

Monos page

Cheers
Will

[Boxertwinjeff]

Thanks for the info Will, when you have time, could you check out the advert on Yachthub, shes called Nancy Higgins and give me just a Face value opinion, a particular Broker I emailed said if I want the cheap price he won't except a Survey don't on it, what do you make of this, is that unscrupulous but legal for him to play it like that?

[Boxertwinjeff]

Originally Posted by Mike Banks

If the deck is steel, this is weight in the place most likely to affect stability.

Usually they are thicker in the bottom plate, 6mm, then 5mm sides or less--then 3mm decks or have instead plywood glassed over and bolted to stainless steel deck shelves, but whether Van de Stat do this I can not say.

The designs are very well thought out, but often builders make changes--and some 9f those changes ruin the whole boat.

If she is too heavy--leave her. One can not add sufficient mass in the keel to make her more stable without her having excessive draft and insufficient freeboard.





The WORST thing one can do with a steel hull is to exceed the design specifications. The material is already extremely strong--and to do so makes no sense.

Thanks for the info Mike, when you say Stability would be affected, do you mean she would roll quite a lot from side to side?

[CaptWil]

Originally Posted by Boxertwinjeff

Thanks for the info Will, when you have time, could you check out the advert on Yachthub, shes called Nancy Higgins and give me just a Face value opinion, a particular Broker I emailed said if I want the cheap price he won't except a Survey don't on it, what do you make of this, is that unscrupulous but legal for him to play it like that?

Sorry mate but cannot her on that website?? can you paste me the link thanks
Rgds
Will