To-do list: refit a 10-20 yr boat for bluewater sailing

[Toccata]

Where to start. The problem is you don't know what you don't know...yet.
Do you want to restore a boat or go cruising???
Restoration will take far longer and cost far more than you think or can plan for.
5 total boat restorations under my belt, but two cruising boat restorations I will share here for fear of boring everyone...
A Savage Oceanic 46' Centre cockpit design. Built '87 (last one built) It had done 20 years of cruising and was overdue for a refit.
New mast and Boom and sails. (In mast furling I hated that system with a vengeance!)
Paint hull/deck outside and in.
Total interior strip out and rebuild
All systems replaced except the engine (it had been done a few years previously)
Cost: 4 times what the boat was worth.
Time: Full time shipwright and myself on evenings and weekends, 2 years.
Sold as soon as it was completed as I had fallen out of love with it by then.
Currently refitting a Stuart 47 motorsailer
20 years old, it has done some big trips but generally just old and the original fit out was done "on the cheap" Hull built to survey.
Started Feb '23 with 2 and now 3 shipwrights full time. Should be finished mid this year ('24)
New engine. New mast boom sails. (In boom furling, I think I hated that more than the in-mast furling, but it's a close decision)
Total interior refit including plumbing and wiring, upholstery and furniture redesign, galley layout etc.
Cost: At least 3 times what it is worth. Finished product: As good as I can make it, and satisfying to have done it properly and know that it will be virtually trouble free for at least the next 5 years (I hope).
There were only 8 of these boats made and it is a seriously capable passage maker, all of which I keep repeating to myself to justify the process Im going through.

[bccoast]

Originally Posted by Toccata

Where to start. The problem is you don't know what you don't know...yet.
Do you want to restore a boat or go cruising???
Restoration will take far longer and cost far more than you think or can plan for.
5 total boat restorations under my belt, but two cruising boat restorations I will share here for fear of boring everyone...
A Savage Oceanic 46' Centre cockpit design. Built '87 (last one built) It had done 20 years of cruising and was overdue for a refit.
New mast and Boom and sails. (In mast furling I hated that system with a vengeance!)
Paint hull/deck outsi....

What did you hate about the in-mast and in-boom furling?

I love our inmast furling, so easy to deploy and furl in. So many times I think I would have just motored if I had a stack pack. Admittedly did get stuck once, due to user error from. new crew member who didnt keep tension on it while furling in. other than that, never had an issue.

I suspect binding issues have been improved with newer systems and when we go offshore, will get new laminate main that will be much thinner than our Dacron main. If we get a new boat before we go, was going to look into in-boom furling as an option.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by bccoast

Great, what are your thoughts to our replies?

I appreciate the constructive advice.

As mentioned, there is a wealth of tribal knowledge on this forum, so I very much appreciate those who take the time to provide detailed answers.

[Toccata]

In mast:
The sail just looked awful without a roach and battens. The bearing mechanism on the furling mandrel was difficult to inspect top and bottom. The sail always had various creases that were pressed in by the furling process/tension. With the sail down the mandrel banged around inside the mast. On a 46' boat the cavity to contain the mandrel and sail was a very significant space inside the mast which lead me to be concerned about its integrity. That said, the boat had sailed 20000 miles.
In Boom:
This was on the current boat with a 60' mast.
The size/weight of the boom was significant, so much so that I considered it disproportional to the size of the sail and to the strength of the gooseneck fitting. The mandrel was (obviously) only supported at the ends, and they looked weak to me. The sail dropping process seemed to take too long compared to the rapid drop achieved with lazy jacks and a boom bag. The built in sliding canvass cover arrangement was flawed leading to jam ups with the cover.
I have now had two furling boom systems. One had the mechanism on the aft face of the mast. The only structural change to the mast was a set of tapped thread holes on the aft face. The other had a shaft passing through the mast to allow a winch handle on the forward face of the mast. It was a significant hole through the mast.
Mine may have been poorly setup/poorly maintained.
The appeal of a conventional setup (to me) is the failsafe nature of it. Halyard released, sail comes down!

[MicHughV]

In my day, I've gotten to know many people either building or re-building a boat.
In all cases, the rebuild effort took more time than starting from scratch.
And....regardless of building or rebuilding, the time and $$ amount invariable exceeded the original budget by 3X or so.

Additionally, a fact often forgotten is that a rebuild is likely going to take place on land somewhere, where one is at the mercy of the weather. Even were a boat moved under a roof or inside a shed, the weather will dictate what can or cannot be done.

I've seen several "rebuild" efforts get totally abandoned after the first year or so after reality sets in and many marriages/relationships go by the wayside.

But you never know, you, the OP could pull it off.

[bccoast]

Thanks. I need to spend more time on other boats I think to compare. only owned a boat with furling main. I sail single or double handed mostly so I will take the trade-off of no battons and slight speed hit. The next boat will likely be a cat so depending on the setup may not be a big deal.

[MicHughV]

I can give a second example I'm very familiar with.

I knew a boat broker at a marina, and would stop by to visit him from time to time.
Alongside their office, was an air condition cloth shed, housing a Landfall 43 of 70's vintage. The boat was owned by an elderly gentleman, who apparently had some money. What his interest was in re-doing this particular boat I could not say.

The interior of boat was stripped down to the bare hull, and everything, and I mean everything was removed and redone. all the wiring, instruments, lights, fabric, thru-hulls, new a/c units, new tankage....everything !! Engine overhauled, new generator installed, new rod rigging, the list was endless. It was inside that shed for some time, around two years as I recall.

Then the outside of the hull was given a flawless imron paint job. It looked better than new.

As the broker knew the owner, the two of us would climb on the boat from time to time to see what was going on.
The work being done was being done by pro's of various disciplines. It was all very mind blowing stuff.

The boat was finally put back in the water and put up for sale, but the asking price was, off course, outrageous. After all this time and effort, the boat was not selling and would never sell. The boat was too old and the price to high.

Dissolute , the owner contacted my broker friend, to get out from underneath it. Sell it at any cost was instructed.

This is where I come in, as I was quite familiar with the boat having been on it many times and liked it. The broker asked me how much cash I could scrape together. I threw a pitiful small number at him. Not only pitiful, but laughable.

I get a call from the broker the next day...."if you can have your money here by noon tomorrow, the boat is yours?

What was I to do....I bought it.

Not sure what the moral of the story is here, but investing tons of time and money on a boat is rarely a good investment.

[MicHughV]

meant to say ..."money on an OLD boat"

[Jim Cate]

^^^^

Naw, mate, ya had it right the first time: investing tons of money on ANY boat is a doubtful investment... but can be rewarding in other ways than fiscal!

Most of us have eventually learned this lesson; some have acted wisely from the knowledge and the rest of us stumble blindly onward!

Jim

[Toccata]

"From MicHughV; Not sure what the moral of the story is here, but investing tons of time and money on a boat is rarely a good investment."

And those that just keep doing it, well that's a problem both unexplainable to an outsider (and probably unrecoverable, the illness that is, let alone the $)

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by bccoast

Thanks. I need to spend more time on other boats I think to compare. only owned a boat with furling main. I sail single or double handed mostly so I will take the trade-off of no battons and slight speed hit. The next boat will likely be a cat so depending on the setup may not be a big deal.

A bit off topic but on a cat (caveat depending on the performance ratio) the only way to go is slab reefing.

In addition to the already mentioned sail shape issues and lack of roach essential for efficient up wind work and sufficient sail area off the wind, in mast puts too much weight aloft.
In boom results in lots of sail wear and distortion on the luff due to batten compression when transferring to the mandrel and it removes the ability to play the outhaul an essential control of sail shape on a rig that cannot lean over, hence multi's have loose footed main sails. Just my 2p worth of multihull wisdom.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Toccata

The problem is you don't know what you don't know...yet.

Of course.

I'm of the view cruising is better than have to spend months (or years) fixing a vessel up. More cruising, less wrenching.

Which is not to say there won't be any wrenching - thus scope needs to be identified (what needs to be repaired/upgraded/replaced, etc), then resources (who will be conducting repairs - professional or DIY), with minimum time on the hard.

Maintenance, of course, is an ongoing fact of life.

[MicHughV]

I was quite young when the sailing bug hit....early 20's...and off course, didn't have a dime to my name at that time.
Only way I was going to be able to afford a boat was to build it myself.....so I did.

When I finally took off, my boat had little of anything. It was as barebones as one could imagine.
No fridge....but an icebox, when the ice ran out, so did the cold beer. I learned to drink warm rum and coke.
I had a small two burner kerosene stove.
My dink was a small fiberglass job with a 2 hp outboard on it.
No navigational instruments of any kind. No depthsounder.
I had oil lights below.
All my sails were hank on.
Anchors were pulled up by hand.
Made my own bread on the stove top.
My only radio was a vhf. Once out of sight of land, I was pretty much on my own.
I had no insurance of any kind for me or boat.
All my charts were paper. Many were hand drawn copies I made from other cruiser's charts.
I can go on and on.

Here's the thing. I had the time of my life for the next 15 years or so. When I had $5 in mah pocket I felt rich.

Ironically, I often sailed with others, that had as little as I did.

I became an avid diver and spearfisherman and often sold my catch to other cruisers as my only money stream. Fresh seafood was my daily diet.

These days I look around and boats are kitted out with every modern electronic gadget money can buy. Solar arrays, dinks with 15 hp on the back, a/c, generators and much more.
But they never leave the dock. Hours are spent researching weather forecasts looking for the perfect weather window, which never comes.

It doesn't take a million dollar boat to go cruising. It takes a million dollar attitude !!!

I've heard countless stories of " I have a 7 year plan", but can't recall ever hearing of such a plan making it to fruition. Life gets in the way.

If you wanna go...go !!! and go now.....It's that simple.

[Don C L]

Looks like you have most of your answers here, but you don't mention a budget. Chances are you can find a good boat with everything, or almost everything, you have mentioned already done and ready to go. Things may not look brand new, but they will probably function as new and do so for a long time. I can understand a new boom if you want in-boom furling and you find a boat you like that doesn't have it. But I too wondered about the new mast.

The most economical way to do it is find a boat where someone already did all the work and has to sell.

A friend used to say, if you know what you are doing take your estimate and double it. If you don't know, triple it. That's been pretty accurate over the years.

[Toccata]

(Quote)
I'm of the view cruising is better than have to spend months (or years) fixing a vessel up. More cruising, less wrenching.
Which is not to say there won't be any wrenching - thus scope needs to be identified (what needs to be repaired/upgraded/replaced, etc), then resources (who will be conducting repairs - professional or DIY), with minimum time on the hard.
Maintenance, of course, is an ongoing fact of life.[/QUOTE]

Just musing:
You are far more analytical than I. I just do the next job until they're all done.
Halfway through the rebuild, I do wish that I'd chosen a boat that required less work. But in my own defence, sometimes you have to pull things apart (which you can't do until you own the boat) to know the true extent of the job.
Interestingly, "my better half" counselled me against buying this boat based on the home made upholstery. Her view being that it indicated the state of the workmanship in rest of the boat, and you know what? she was right!