Survey and sea trial

[CAArias]

Hi

Next week ill be taking a Bristol 41.1, aft cockpit, center board with a 52hp Westerbeke, out fro a sea trial and survey. I am interested in anyone's thoughts, opinions or experiences with this boat in particular, but also what I might want to pay attention to or questions to ask. I have already done quite a bit of research on the matter but i am also interested in what additional information might be out there.

all input and thoughts are welcome

Regards
Chris

[maxingout]

Good luck on your survey and sea trial.

[JPA Cate]

Welcome aboard CF, CAArias.

If you do a CF Google Custom Search (under the Search Menu) for "Marine Survey 101", you may find some food for thought there. It is not aimed at the Bristol you're interested in, but it is about things to look for.

Ann

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Chris.

[Suijin]

Great boat. Hope it surveys well.

Some random thoughts:

Follow the surveyor around like a hawk, for the entire survey. Take notes, take pictures. If the surveyor notices an issue, engage them in a discussion about it right then and there. You'll get more detail and useful information, and see the issue yourself, which is better than just reading about it in the report.

I see too many prospective owners who go have lunch while the surveyor is doing their work. You're paying for their time, get the most out of it.

Most surveyors' delivered reports are very factual and to the point, without much contextualizing discussion. Very often, the best information you'll get out of the surveyor is anecdotal or a generalized assessment, such as "This right here is evidence that the boat has been well maintained", or "The fact that this here is still original is not a great sign of the boat being taken care of", and that happens on the boat, while they're looking at it. Take advantage of that and listen carefully.

Everything that the surveyor turns up as being an issue, that is not mentioned in the listing description, stated inventory, etc. is grounds for renegotiating the offer. As a result, you need to fully understand the issues and the estimated costs of remediation if you want to successfully draft and defend an adjustment to the agreed upon price.

In general, aside from looking for specific problems with the boat, such a non-functional piece of equipment, you really want to get a sense of how well the boat has been maintained. If you end up buying the boat, you're going to find a bunch of stuff that the surveyor never found since they only have @ 8 hours to poke prod and inspect. If the boat has not been well maintained, that list is going to get a lot longer, and be far more expensive to deal with, than otherwise.

[CAArias]

Hi

Thanks for the input and thoughts. From what I can see, the boat has been very well maintained. The bilge is spotless and dry, the engine is clean and the rigging was replaced just a couple years ago. My main concern is the electrical, that is not my strongest area. I definitely will take photos and notes since my brain seems to be at capacity these days. I need more RAM.

[bjymd]

Welcome aboard.
Be aware that critical items found on survey will need to be repaired prior to getting insurance clearance to go sailing. I had "port insurance" while I waited for things to get done.

[dakno]

You didn't mention year of boat. Some generalizations; Equipment life spans., batteries 5years, a/c 8 years, electronics 10 years, electric head 8 years, sunbrella 10 years...good luck

[CAArias]

Ah yes. it is an 1985. She has had a lot of replacements over the past few years. The one that really sold me was the standing rigging was done 2013 but also, prop shaft and cutless '15, vacu flush and macerator '17, main and jib, '08, all winches serviced in'17, Batteries '14.

[psk125]

We had friends with one of these. How much wind is there where you sail? There is not a lot around here for much of the summer. One day he was powering along because of the lack of wind. We passed him, sailing. He was quite surprised and dismayed because there wasn't enough wind for him to sail and he couldn't keep up with us (a J/36) with his engine. Perhaps he had a smaller motor than yours. With his ketch rig the mizzen mast seemed to interfere with maneuvers in the cockpit quite a bit. The hull seems narrow by modern standards as well. His wife was amazed at how roomy our boat was below. A nice boat, but know what you're getting.

[CAArias]

Yes, a J class boat and an open water cruiser, like the Bristol 41.1, are two different animals, or sea creatures in this case. I am not sure if you were passing was a Bristol 41.1 which is considered a cruiser/racer and is not a ketch. Having said that, for me the cap size and comfort ratios are more important then SA to D ratios. I'm moving from a 34' hunter, a fast boat, that does well in light air, and sails more like a laser, to a stable cruiser that can handle heavy seas in comfort. We are looking forward to some open water sailing and the Bristol seems to be a good candidate. Ultimately, in a gale, i would rather be in a slow deep keeled boat than one with a good PHRF. I love going fast but for now Ill save that for the weekend races in the laser.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Chris

[UNCIVILIZED]

Lots, & lots of good tips in here thus far, well worth heeding. That said, I'll toss in a few other items that'll hopefully assist. Including some self-educational resources that I'm a big fan of.

Firstly, I'm always there for surveys, & don't hover, but if something comes up that concerns me or the surveyor, I engage him about it. And when hiring a surveyor, it pays to vett him a bit, including making sure he's okay with your being there & asking questions.

Note that my going ahead with the survey process is set in motion only after my extensively going through a boat evaluating her condition, with the owner's prior permission to do so. And while I don't take her systems apart, unless such is pre-approved (usually with the owner there at the time), I do give everything a good going over. Usually taking several hours to do so. And I've spent my life around boats since I was 3, much of it professionally. So little enough onboard them is at all unfamiliar to me.

Another big, big thing is that it pays (literally) to have several types of surveys done on a boat of significant value. Specificially; a rigging survey (Brion Toss did mine, & I learned a lot), an engine & mechanical survey with fluids analysis (oil, & transmission), a general survey (the type normally discussed), & a sails survey (if you're not up for evaluating them yourself).

Also, on any expensive systems that you're not up to speed on evaluating yourself, & or want a professional evaluation of, hire a specialist to survey them. Such as a boat's electrical & electronics system.
Personally, on a boat with anything more than a simple DC system with a small panel, this is one I'd have done professionally. Despite my knowing loads about boats.

To be clear, you want to make sure that all of this is okay with the owner. And it probably should be written into the sales/pre-sale contract. Ditto on what you plan to evaluate, & how, in terms of systems, during the sea trial(s). So that nothing you want to do to & with the boat is a surprise to the owner, nor causes controversy, difficulties with the sale process etc.

Read up on surveying boats, including via boatpoker's website. Marine Surveyor, Port Credit Marine Surveys, Toronto, Ontario He's a member here who's a surveyor. And also there's a ton of useful info on surveying & sea trialing in the Dashew's book Offshore Cruising Encyclopedia, vol. II available free at SetSail FPB » Free Books
Including specifics on much of what they think it's important to evaluate in a boat prior to buying her (sea trials). And they give examples both about when they purchased a couple of their own personal boats, & when their daughter did the same with her Santana 37. The info is gold.

And if it's not obvious, the reason for the seperate surveys is that any & all of the named systems above can have hidden issues that might cost you well into the 5-digit figure range in order to sort out. So while it's expensive to have these surveys done, it's a form of pre-purchase insurance.

But again, I only make this kind of investment after giving a candidate boat a good, in depth, going over. This in addition to the cursory inspection that one gives a boat when looking at her the first (& perhaps 2nd/3rd) time, before getting serious about starting the buying process on her.

EDIT: Also do a search here on CF, & online, about the use of Thermal Imagers in surveys. Including when evaluating engines & such. Since some hidden problems in machinery can become evident through their use, & also via the use of other temperature monitoring equipment. Something which Dockhead put to quite valuable use when boat shopping a few years ago.