Size of yacht

[nautical62]

Noelex: I realize the ability, to live simply or cut down on water is all very dependant on what those on board are willing to do. Having come from a background of canoe, kayak and backpacking expeditions, going to a sailboat, even a basically equipped one was luxurious.

When I've needed to conserve, and stay out longer with less, I often go back to my previous camping experience: Dried, foods, etc. As for water, I found carrying some in water bags and sunshowers allows one to use all sorts of odd and possibly dirty spaces like the bilge.

I've also found when island cruising, I can easily bathe daily with a few jumps in the ocean and a one quart sun shower. Add 3/4 gallon for drinking and a little for a final dish wash and one can keep it at 1.5 gallons fairly reasonably. My current boat has pressurized water and there is no way I can get crew to be any where near that frugal.

I do appreciate the additional 7 feet my current boat has over my previous pocket cruiser. However, when I look back, I'm amazed at how much one can do with so little and have a great time. In my opinion, any boat that gets you out there safely having a good time is the right size.

[Curmudgeon]

IMHO people want bigger, more expensive boats for a variety of reasons, but prestige is certainly one of them. It's the same with houses.

And it's not just cruising boats. The folks at Morris and Alerion want to sell me a $300,000 daysailer. I guess one of those must be 600 times more fun than a $5,000 Sonar.

Manufacturers and brokers make more money on big boats. So do boatyards and just about everyone else in the industry. Just look at the glossy sailing publications touting bigger is better and more mechanized is better (Good Old Boat being the exception).

The one critical thing a 45 footer has that a 30 footer doesn't is a second cabin for decent privacy when you sail with another couple (and yes, that queen sized island bed in the aft cabin). But if only two people are involved, the argument about the value of all that extra storage space and tankage is unconvincing. My 30 footer can go anywhere and I could easily store enough provisions and gear to go offshore for 40-50 days, with plenty of margin for safety.

[waverider]

Curmudgeon,

I agree 100%. I know that with my little 27 footer, I will look like the trailor trash when at anchor with the big boats. I wonder if there sundowners taste better then mine when sitting in the cockpit under the stairs. Some how I doubt it, but I would love to have a 32 to 36 foot boat.

Not for prestige but for room and comfort below deck. Many 30 to 35 foot boats do not offer anymore cockpit room then my 27 Mirage. If I am going to cruise the caribbean, then my time is spent outside. Diving, shopping, and maybe a few drinks too.

Got to love the big boats! Got to love the small boats! Any boat is better then no boat. But the best one is the one that take's you sailing.

Cheers to everyone that has a boat, and Cheers to everyone that is looking a buying a boat.

[Stillraining]

Prestige has zero influence in my life...Im the guy you see sailing with the fenders left out every once in awhile...I have no use for a sport jacket or do I shop for name brand polo shirts..I like used stuff..and can Carry a case of Schmidt down any dock without a thought about it.
No matter what boat I end up with or how large..I would be downright humiliated, dejected and depressed if the 24' solo or cruising couple thought I was to stuck up arrogant or felt better then them in any way as for them to not want to raft up and share a beer with me...

My wive is claustrophobic the openness of the Irwin's is what allowed me to migrate back into sail boats with her by my side..Finding a bluewater cruiser compatible to her condition will be a challenge because of that...as I said before there are many, many reason why a lot of us sail what we do..and some of us get what we have because of individual needs that you only have to ask to understand....I value people more then things and always will..I'll do what I can do to make someone comfortable thats my goal..In my wifes case its a big beamy bright interior boat..please dont judge people on what appears on the veneer.

[imagine2frolic]

Originally Posted by Stillraining

Prestige has zero influence in my life...Im the guy you see sailing with the fenders left out every once in awhile...I have no use for a sport jacket or do I shop for name brand polo shirts..I like used stuff..and can Carry a case of Schmidt down any dock without a thought about it.
No matter what boat I end up with or how large..I would be downright humiliated, dejected and depressed if the 24' solo or cruising couple thought I was to stuck up arrogant or felt better then them in any way as for them to not want to raft up and share a beer with me...

My wive is claustrophobic the openness of the Irwin's is what allowed me to migrate back into sail boats with her by my side..Finding a bluewater cruiser compatible to her condition will be a challenge because of that...as I said before there are many, many reason why a lot of us sail what we do..and some of us get what we have because of individual needs that you only have to ask to understand....I value people more then things and always will..I'll do what I can do to make someone comfortable thats my goal..In my wifes case its a big beamy bright interior boat..please dont judge people on what appears on the veneer.

THANKS, for typing that. I don't understand the seperation some feel just because of the size of boat. When sailing Mexico I got along with everyone, and that includes huge gin palaces. Lots of the boats in P.V. could have lifted my boat up onto their decks. Let's just sail what we have, and wave to our fellow sailors as we sail, or get out of the cockpit to grab a dockline when someone comes into a slip. When someone comes into an anchorage. Point to your anchor, so they know where it is, and smile. Let's not forget those WONDERFUL potlucks too!.....i2f

[nautical62]

Originally Posted by Stillraining

Prestige has zero influence in my life....

I was glad to read that, but it did make me think of the assumptions people often make about other cruisers based on things like boat size or how they are outfitted. My first boat was a 26-foot pocket cruiser and I can recall many times in the Bahamas where it was the smallest boat around. I was surprised at how frequently cruisers on larger boats assumed I was new to cruising, needed advice, etc, all based on boat size. When I had an outboard powered pocket cruiser, that perception was even worse.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by imagine2frolic

THANKS, for typing that. I don't understand the seperation some feel just because of the size of boat.

I have to agree. I hope my post has not been perceived "my boat is bigger than yours" it was never intended that way.
If you read my original scenario you will see I think that couple A, on the small boat enjoy themselves more than couple B on the large boat. (but couple c on the the large boat with the small boat attitude do best of the lot.)
As I have mentioned I have cruised (part time) in a very small boat (25 feet) for many years.There have been many instances, over the years that show there is no class society among cruising folk.I have been to progressive parties (where you have appetizers on one boat a main meal on on another etc) where you go from a $2millon dollar yacht to a $5000 open deck catamaran. (Beware French hosts they consider a party should go at least 24 hours). Another example 20 boats in an anchorage. the owner of a 60 foot yacht comes over to us in our 25 foot boat and invites us to dinner. He said I feel it is the duty of the largest boat in any anchorage to invite the people on the smallest boat in the anchorage over for dinner. Now isn't that a nice thought.

[imagine2frolic]

Noelex 77,

I believe I read it as you meant it. When I say some that includes both parties on small & large boats. Maybe some are shy, and some arrogant? I have found the cruising community to be the nicest, and most giving community. Cruisers actually restored my faith in humanity, but that's a LONG story.....lolololol.....i2f

[Stillraining]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

I have to agree. I hope my post has not been perceived "my boat is bigger than yours" it was never intended that way.
If you read my original scenario you will see I think that couple A, on the small boat enjoy themselves more than couple B on the large boat. (but couple c on the the large boat with the small boat attitude do best of the lot.)
As I have mentioned I have cruised (part time) in a very small boat (25 feet) for many years.There have been many instances, over the years that show there is no class society among cruising folk.I have been to progressive parties (where you have appetizers on one boat a main meal on on another etc) where you go from a $2millon dollar yacht to a $5000 open deck catamaran. (Beware French hosts they consider a party should go at least 24 hours). Another example 20 boats in an anchorage. the owner of a 60 foot yacht comes over to us in our 25 foot boat and invites us to dinner. He said I feel it is the duty of the largest boat in any anchorage to invite the people on the smallest boat in the anchorage over for dinner. Now isn't that a nice thought.

I did not get that feeling at all from what you posted...what Im talking about is actually coming from the other direction..I get more of a feeling of disdain or a need for preaching by thoes that want the small boats..

What should be important to everyone is to have what you want and be happy for others who have what they want.

And if for financial / physical or logistical reasons you dont have what you want and/or never maybe will have...dont begrudge thoes who do...either up or down the length, quality or gizmo choice scale.

Whatever boat has the friendly people aboard is the one I gravitate to associate with..not the size, brand or year of manufacturer..I even come bearing gifts...usually cold beers in hand.

Anyone of you scallywags find me at anchor someplace the boarding ladders always down.

[anotherT34C]

I'll admit that I'm a human being, and a pack animal. And as such, prestige does matter to me. What I might find prestigious (for example) is sailing in a classy Finisterre Nevins40 (beautiful, historical, well designed). What I wouldn't (for example) is anything "big for the sake of showing off money". One shows off knowledge, the other money.

People who find prestige in the latter are in my opinion, at least a bit bourgeois... but I do think it a bit dishonest to claim not to care about prestige at all. If true, it might be an indicator of some kind of pathology. Human beings are pack animals, and we are wired to care what the pack thinks of us. Sorry for the aside, and of course I'm not at all claiming anything intrinsic about big boats. I wish I had one too.

[Stillraining]

Originally Posted by anotherT34C

e .. but I do think it a bit dishonest to claim not to care about prestige at all. If true, it might be an indicator of some kind of pathology. Human beings are pack animals, and we are wired to care what the pack thinks of us. Sorry for the aside, and of course I'm not at all claiming anything intrinsic about big boats. I wish I had one too.

T

For me what your talking about is self worth not prestige..

You are 100 % corect in my need to feel accepted buy others but 100% wrong in my needing to impress them...The key here is to associate with thoes that accept you for who you are not drag you down for who you are not.

Untill just 3 years ago all I ever drove were 2000.00 PU trucks personal or buisness..then I upgraded to a 3500.00 work PU..We just bought from our closest friend his 2000 GMC PU for 7600.00 this is the most expencive automobile I have ever purchased in my life..

My point is if your not trying to impress anyone and have a good self image it dosent matter what you have or havent got.

I was 27 when I met my wife she was 19..I was making at that time pretty big money for a blue collar worker on the North slope of Alaska..my truck was a rust bucket 1200.00 72 GMC 4x4....on our second date she got splashed with dirty muddy water up through the floor boards just driving around Anchorage..We still laugh about it..I could have walked into any dealership in town and paid cash for 3 brand new ones..my self esteem and need to impress her or anyone didnt require it.

I now mow my front lawn because I like the look..If I didnt Id still let our horses graze and destroy it instead like they use to...

Nope my friend no dishonesty here ...and no prestige either...

Boat ownership should be the same...for me it is...its just another boat.


Of course maybe clinically there is something wrong in my head to boot.

[Joli]

You fail to consider the "I don't care what you think" option.

When I sailed a beat up Rhodes Bantam I enjoyed it, when I sailed a Laser I enjoyed it, when I sailed a wood Thistle I enjoyed it, when I sailed an Eichenlaub Star I enjoyed it, today I sail what I sail and enjoy it. Not once have I looked around the bay and wondered what others thought of me or the boat I sailed.

Sail for the joy of sailing, prestige is for those that find no joy in sailing.

Originally Posted by anotherT34C

I do think it a bit dishonest to claim not to care about prestige at all

[meyermm]

all good points but somewhere in the middle is where I would suggest. Small boat usually means less storage, water tank size etc. So no water maker and small tank capacity is limiting, yes you can line the decks with containers but that leads to other problems. In the tropics on a hot steamy day a nice shower made from renewable source has a lot of appeal for most but not all. 37 - 44ft with water maker, hot water (engine), fridge seem like a good place to start. Microwave etc etc no! Many of the problems that cruisers have are caused by lack of maintenance so regular servicing and maintenance can save you heaps in the long run as well as limiting those break downs.

[anotherT34C]

Originally Posted by Stillraining

T

For me what your talking about is self worth not prestige..

You are 100 % corect in my need to feel accepted buy others but 100% wrong in my needing to impress them...The key here is to associate with thoes that accept you for who you are not drag you down for who you are not.

Untill just 3 years ago all I ever drove were 2000.00 PU trucks personal or buisness..then I upgraded to a 3500.00 work PU..We just bought from our closest friend his 2000 GMC PU for 7600.00 this is the most expencive automobile I have ever purchased in my life..

My point is if your not trying to impress anyone and have a good self image it dosent matter what you have or havent got.

I was 27 when I met my wife she was 19..I was making at that time pretty big money for a blue collar worker on the North slope of Alaska..my truck was a rust bucket 1200.00 72 GMC 4x4....on our second date she got splashed with dirty muddy water up through the floor boards just driving around Anchorage..We still laugh about it..I could have walked into any dealership in town and paid cash for 3 brand new ones..my self esteem and need to impress her or anyone didnt require it.

I now mow my front lawn because I like the look..If I didnt Id still let our horses graze and destroy it instead like they use to...

Nope my friend no dishonesty here ...and no prestige either...

Boat ownership should be the same...for me it is...its just another boat.


Of course maybe clinically there is something wrong in my head to boot.

I think maybe it's more of a disagreement over definition rather than concept. I'm bundling "accept" and "impress" into the general currency of "prestige". You can argue that I'm being too simplistic, and that's fair enough.

Your prestige may not be self-derived from wealth. That's good, I think (others would disagree with me). Maybe it's derived from a self-image of rugged individualism, but in any case, your social standing is important to you, at least within the society you choose to be a part of (and however they quantify 'social standing').

Joli, I don't think I would disagree with you. Maybe you don't derive prestige or social standing from your boat. But I'd bet that if you looked over yourself honestly, you would find places where you do. Myself, I'm a scientist. I care deeply that my colleagues respect my analytic integrity. It's my social circle (pack), and how I mainly derive standing and prestige. Similarly, having a boat (or maybe a wristwatch) of a famous design say, in addition to intrinsic enjoyment, also displays taste and knowledge (of design history, maybe) that others who share those values (your pack) will appreciate. The guy 3 slips down with the 50-foot floating cheese wedge maybe won't understand why your damp little craft costs the same as his, but you have different priorities. His prestige maybe is in bigger and newer.

Clearly, there's something wrong with my head as well.

[Stillraining]

That's OK T.....I've been disagreeing with scientists since my first day of Sunday school...