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Old 04-09-2008, 15:03   #16
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Agree with the above. If the wind is making you roll away the jib entirely, you might plan on putting up the storm jib first, and switch up to the working jib if things seem to be too little, which I've done a couple times. That may be 'cuz my storm and my 100% aren't really dramatically different in size, but definitely flatter/heavier. ::adds new working jib to list of thingsIgottahave::

Remember, too, that a 100% jib on an inner stay is still more powerful than on the outer stay, because it also powers up the main. It's one of those times when having a dedicated inner stay and staysails is the better solution (along with the money to keep the lady in dresses...)
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Old 04-09-2008, 17:44   #17
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I understand the responses for heavy weather. But what about light air? How much of an improvement is a spinnaker (either standard or asymetrical) over a large genoa (say 150%) with a whisker pole and going downwind wing on wing?

My "spinnaker skills" are (to put it politely) in the developmental stage.
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Old 04-09-2008, 17:47   #18
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What Works for Your Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by miss-m View Post
Ok, I have a question.
If we've furled up our 120% genoa and set our working jib on the inner stay in 25 knots, and then the winds increase to 35 knots, is it really sensible and safe to go forward and take the working jib down and put the storm jib up. Sounds impossible to me. How do people do it?
Getting caught with the wrong sail plan up is probably more common than anyone wants to admit.

Practicign with your boat and deciding what sail plan works for various conditions is key.

The second aspect is how to progress from "full plan" to "heavy airs" to "storm plan" in a logical (read less strenuous) fashion.

Sail changes are hard work so any plan I develop would consider that. You also have to consider which way the weather is going - worse - stable or better.

I saw a system on a cruising boat a while back. The storm jib was in a really neat bag attached to the foredeck under the inner stay. You still had to go to the foredeck but it the was it was packed made the job a lot simpler, and of course no sailbag had to be hauled. You could basically sit on the deck, clipped in, and rig the sail.

I reef early, maybe too early, there is no heroics in battling the boat and the wind. Hull speed is hull speed.
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Old 04-09-2008, 17:51   #19
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Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
I understand the responses for heavy weather. But what about light air? How much of an improvement is a spinnaker (either standard or asymetrical) over a large genoa (say 150%) with a whisker pole and going downwind wing on wing?

My "spinnaker skills" are (to put it politely) in the developmental stage.
It makes all the difference in the world on our boat. Wing on wing with our 150% genny is the slowest point of sail we have. Especially in light airs. At <5kts our 5 oz genny often collapses under it's own weight. Our spinnaker remains full and pulling.

Also check your polars, VMG will often be much better off DDW. You also can get a breeze across the deck. I hate sweltering ddw with no relative wind on the deck. Hot and sticky - yuch!

We are having a light airs genny made as I write.
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Old 04-09-2008, 18:58   #20
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Is that with a whisker pole or without?
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Old 04-09-2008, 20:06   #21
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Below 5 kts we pole it out, usually.

And correction - our absolute worst point of sail is a run, not wing on wing. When the main blanks the genny we pretty much stop in <5kts - LOL.

However in >5kts, we don't pole out and we do set wing on wing and life is so good we might even go to the foredack and dance a little...
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Old 05-09-2008, 04:43   #22
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Thanks for all the responses. I guess Im struggling to understand when you would use a working jib. We're a sloop with a seperate inner stay for a storm jib. Our sail 'plan' is to keep rolling up the furling genoa until the winds get strong enough then pull out the storm jib which we keep on deck ready to go on the inner stay. We keep looking at working jibs but cant see when we'd use them, or if we even need to.
Any answers?
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:27   #23
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Miss-m.

I have a cutter rig, which I've found to be great for sailing in heavy weather conditions. The genoa is a high-cut 110% sail. It didn't perform very will when rolled up past 80% or so, because it lost it's shape. I had foam luff pads sewn in, and that made all the difference.

Now, for example, when the wind is 35 kts or more, I roll the genny up so that it just overlaps the staysail (maybe 40%), leave the roller furling staysail full, and reef the roller furling main in to the point where the helm is balanced. The boat sails like a dream, with moderate heel, and plenty of power to punch through waves.

I strongly recommend luff pads or luff rope if you expect to sail with the genny rolled in more than 20% or so. So far, I've never felt the need for any other foresails than the 110% genny and the staysail in winds up to 45-50 kts.
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:28   #24
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Miss-M:

It really depends upon the sail plan of the boat. Some boats are given very generous "light air" sail plans, and they sail well with a reef in 10-12 knots. Others consider their first reef at 20-25. A working/100% jib is my foresail of choice from 10-25 kt (though I have stupidly carried it in higher winds,) my baggy/ancient 130% jib for on a reach in 5-10, and the baggy/blown out asym off the wind in 5 or less.

Your boat may never have a use for a working jib. Or it may be the best choice for most of your sailing. (Example is the Tartan 36, which has a self-tending jib and the genny is only for very light conditions.)
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Old 10-09-2008, 13:00   #25
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I agree with those who have said it depends no where you will be sailing and other circumstances.

Consider that charter companies send fairly inexperienced people out in boats all the time with no more than a main and roller furling headsail. It's hard to argue that someone sailing their own boat in the same area, who is more familiar with the boat, has more experience and more time to wait for weather needs more. Passagemaking is obviously something all together different.

Roller furling with less than a 150 certainly allows some adaptability, but one option many forget is that headsails can be reefed by other means as well. After blowing out a genoa on one small pocket cruiser, I only sailed with a main and a 135% headsail with one reef that took it down to about 90% (Actually, I also had a small storm jib as well, but never used it) This suited me well for about 6 more cruises (1-2 months each) prior to selling the boat. While reefing the headsail was not as easy as roller reefing, it was considerably easier than changing sails. Having the reefing points installed was inexpensive.

I'm currently looking at a 30 foot boat for Bahamas cruising and will probably only carry a main and roller furling jib as there is little storage area. I'll be accepting that a sail blow out will mean power sailing, motoring, limping along or sitting still until I get a new sail ordered.
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Old 10-09-2008, 13:26   #26
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Yes, Sell the spinnaker. YES on the inner forestay and staysail or storm jib. On that small a boat, a removeable forestay that attaches just behind the furler is a great setup. No trysail, 3 reefs. IMHO
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Old 10-09-2008, 13:29   #27
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Agree with HUD. the high cut 110 is THE all around sail of choice. It can still be effective with some roller reef in also.
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