questions re: blue water pocket cruiser with standing headroom

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by keelbolts

. I like stand up headroom in my boat, but I sometimes wonder if demanding stand up headroom on a boat isn't much like demanding it in your car. Herreshoff said most of the sailors he knew liked to sit down to eat and all of them liked to lay down to sleep. I believe it was Uffa Fox that said, "if you want to stand up, go up on deck."
.

Rant begin----------------

Being one of the handicapped at 6'4" I know what it is like.

NOTE: The following is not directed at just you Keelbolts.

I understand sitting down to eat etc. I also know that one stands in the galley and also must be ready to jump away unless you wear the asbestos apron and boots as standard fare in the the past.

What people (most all of you) just can't grasp is the discomfort associated with the first 10 to 15 degrees of "stoop" when one cannot stand upright.

Walk a hundred yards in my shoes.

This is silly and I am sure you won't do it but you need to if you want to comment.

Get a big round hat or helmet that when you are wearing it, it makes you 6'4" inches tall. Put a wooden spoon in one pocket and a small hammer in another. Go sailing. Each time your helmet/hat contacts an object tap your kneecap with the appropriate instrument. 100 yards should do you just fine. I don't think you will make it a mile. When you have to stoop while doing anything and everything you might appreciate what it means to stand erect every now and then, even if only for a few seconds at time.

Understanding this is akin to those whom have never had children. (Baby sitting and weekends etc. do not count!) They simply cannot understand what it is like.

-------------------Rant end.

Thank you for your attention and I hope your knees are OK in a few days.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by keelbolts

kafka,
I've only sailed my Pageant in light airs and she is not amazing. She's heavily built and ballasted and I've read that she is good in a blow. Her twin keels allow her to be dried out for painting & zinc replacement which can be convenient and less expensive than having to take her to a yard. That alone is a strong recommendation for her...............She is undeniably homely, though I prefer to describe her a "purpose built", but she has everything you need in a 23' package. For years, her previous owner sailed her from the Chesapeake Bay to the Bahamas, where he whiled away the winter in the islands. My other boat is a 32' ocean racer & the Westerly has practically as much useable space.

I nearly bought one a couple of years ago for pretty much those reasons, didn't simply due to condition and price - and her being moored next to a mint example did not help!

[keelbolts]

Therapy,
I'm 6'-1" so I feel most of your pain. I have a friend who is 6'-4" who blames his back problems on his years as a submariner. Joe was always looking for a boat he could stand up in. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate SUH as well as the next guy, I'm just not sure, unless you're living aboard, that it isn't sometimes overrated.

In the wooden boats I've owned, it wouldn't be hard to drop the cabin sole a couple of inches. My Westerly's bilge is about and inch and a half deep!

[migot1]

we have a friend that tall. he cut the roof of his boat, and had a old fighter plane canopy fitted on! plenty of room, and he can see 360 degrees arround in a storm.

how about that?

Mike

[Cheechako]

The Rawson 30 standard cabin is a nicer arrangement inside than the pilot. The tanks in mine were under the cockpit... thus hard to replace. Mine only had one 40 gal. SO having one empty is likely a plus ballast wise. The Fuji 32 is really a nicer boat inside for sure...d epending on if the Rawson was owner finished etc I suppose. There should be plenty of both available on the west coast, especially Puget Sound. The cockpit of the Rawson is fairly deep. I built a bridgedeck/storage box in mine. Sailed it to Mexico from Seattle and it was one of the dryest boats I've ever owned. The older ones had a rounded rudder (aft edge) the newer ones had a more modern trapezoidal shape for better control.

[kafka]

do you know the last year they stopped making the rawson 30 without a pilothouse? am I correct in that the last few years all they made of the rawson 30 was pilothouse model? thanks

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by keelbolts

Therapy,
I'm 6'-1" so I feel most of your pain. I have a friend who is 6'-4" who blames his back problems on his years as a submariner. Joe was always looking for a boat he could stand up in. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate SUH as well as the next guy, I'm just not sure, unless you're living aboard, that it isn't sometimes overrated.

In the wooden boats I've owned, it wouldn't be hard to drop the cabin sole a couple of inches. My Westerly's bilge is about and inch and a half deep!

I assumed kafka was going to cruise his boat a bit.

It does make a differenct to me as I have spent 25 yrs in the OR, much of the time bent slightly forward (surgeons being shorter) as the assistant. I know how the sub guy feels. I wonder why he stayed there?

Fair winds.

[ronniesimpson]

I may be biased, and I don't know if it was already mentioned, but look at a Bounty II, like I have. I'm 6' tall, and my boat has plenty of headroom for me. I think it's got about 6'2"" of headroom in most parts. At 41 feet, it's not really a "pocket" blue water yacht, but it's only 28 feet at the waterline and 10'3" wide, so in reality it really is a pocket yacht, but with lots of overhang at front and rear, making LOA much longer and substantially increasing storage room. I'm in sunny southern california, so I haven't had my boat in any real weather, but they have a very solid reputation for being sea worthy. They were produced in the late 50s to mid 60s, and will be under the makers; Rhodes, Palmer Johnson, or Pearson.

good luck

[Curmudgeon]

I completely sympathize with Kafka, Therapy and others. I'm 6'2", and standing headroom in both the cabin and the head is an absolute prerequisite for me. I'm not living life hunched over--not even for a weekend.

Most of the Mark Ellis designs have plenty of headroom, including the Alohas and the Nonesuch boats. I read somewhere that Ellis himself is 6'4".

[easterly]

Originally Posted by kafka

to easterly: have you cruised for extended periods in a boat with non standing headroom and if so did you return a hunched over gimp, or was it tolerable? I dont plan to live on the boat permanently mostly because the lady likes land too so maybe i am making too big of a deal about nothing. Man it does suck being hunched over though (you 'short' sailors dont know how lucky you have it!).

I know i could get the headroom i want in a bigger boat, but am trying to avoid a bigger boat if possible and everything that comes along with it (costs, moorage, ect). I do feel a pilothouse is a good compramise. hmmmm.....

keep the boat suggestions coming folks if you know of any.

The good thing with me being 6'4" with my headroom in the heads is, the heads are 6'3", I can stand up straight and not have to brace myself when heeling. I do not come back a hunch backed gimp. 1"~2" of headroom won't kill you but you need to try it first to make sure it is right for you.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

I completely sympathize with Kafka, Therapy and others. I'm 6'2", and standing headroom in both the cabin and the head is an absolute prerequisite for me. I'm not living life hunched over--not even for a weekend.

Most of the Mark Ellis designs have plenty of headroom, including the Alohas and the Nonesuch boats. I read somewhere that Ellis himself is 6'4".

A lot of boats have 6'1" or maybe 6'2". That next jump of 2" is the hard part.

Lock Crouther (sp?) was 6'4" and his cats have head room for him (plus bunks). Wonder why?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by kafka

do you know the last year they stopped making the rawson 30 without a pilothouse? am I correct in that the last few years all they made of the rawson 30 was pilothouse model? thanks

I believe Rawson was out of business by the Mid 80's....? I went to an auction there about that time....

[anathema]

What did you end up with out of curiosity? I have some similar needs as you so this thread has been helpful.

How come no one mentioned the CSY-33? Usually around 30-40 grand, 6'6 headroom, sturdy Water boats">blue water boats. Wont win any races but not as slow as a cape dory I'm told. Good?

[alambertfl]

Take a look at a CSY 33 if you can find one. Solid Fiberglass boat, no balsa core, good tankage, 115 gals. of water and 50 gals. fuel. There were only fifty some manufactured, but are strong and capable of going anywhere. They were made in 33, 37, and 44 ft. length primarily for the charter business, thus the reason for the heavy solid glass construction. Currently, there are four listed on yachtworld.com. They do not have a pilot house, however, the salon is raised and provides much head room. I have also found this boat to be extremely roomy as opposed to others I have seen.
I realize this post is a late response to your inquiry, but if you haven't purchased yet, this may be a viable alternative. Good luck in your quest.

Sonny Lambert
S/V Sonrae CSY 33 Hull#10\
Jacksonville, Florida

[kafka]

no i havent purchased yet. Im in the pacific northwest so the rawson 30 went to the top of my list because of availability and cost, but i now realize that might not be the ideal boat either. the Sadler 34 was also at the top of my list for price/ performance but none here in the USA and i dont have the means to fly all over the world to look at boats. Plus the thing that scared me about the sadler was the fin keel. I dont know how much of an issue this is with most people...anyone care to chime in?

the csy 33 does look like a solid boat, seems to meet all of my criteria for a boat too. It is hard to tell fro the one or two boats i briefly looked at on yachtworld, but is it a pilothouse?