Pearson 26 extreme heel in a gust

[captn_rob]

Hi all, I am pretty new to sailing but grew up in a lobstering family on the Maine coast and captained my own lobster boat for 14 years so I am very comfortable on the water. I picked up my first sailboat this summer - a 1980 Pearson 26 in exceptional condition - and simply love it! I have a family member who used to race on a J24 crew and he has been showing me the ropes (literally LOL) and I am starting to get the hang of it. This past weekend I took out my family plus one friend for a 6 hour sail. The day was AWESOME. Started out with light winds 5 - 10 knots from the northeast. We have to sail southeast for a few miles to get out of the river mouth where our boat is moored so started out on a dead run with the sails set wing-on-wing. As we got out into open water we sailed out on a broad reach for a few hours just enjoying the day. After we turned to head back, the wind came around to the southeast at 10 - 15 knots. This was quite simply the best sailing I have seen yet - as we sailed back toward the mouth of the river on a beam reach we were hitting speeds over 7 knots and the heel angle was not too extreme - I don't have a gauge but I'm guessing it was around 20 degrees - but probably the maximum heel I am comfortable with. There were other boats around us that looked like they were heeling MUCH more - one sailed past us headed the opposite direction and I could damn near see their keel! (well maybe a bit of exaggeration LOL). As we got back into the mouth of the river the winds started becoming unpredictable. Still generally from the south east but gusty. I still had the sails set for a beam reach with the traveller all the way to leeward and the genoa furled a bit to about the size of a standard jib. Suddenly a gust hit us and heeled us over fast and hard. Felt like over 45 degrees! Passengers screamed and my wife fell off her seat. I immediately steered to windward until we were back on our feet but now I'm a bit worried about it happening again. Is it possible for a P26 to get knocked down in 15 knot winds? That is what it felt like we were headed for. Only thing I can think of is that I had too much belly in the main. I recently installed a topping lift and had it slacked off so the mainsail had the full weight of the boom but I forgot to tighten the vang and the cunningham was loose. In retrospect I should have tightened all these down but I'm still not sure...

Any advice for preventing this in the future would be greatly appreciated.


Captn Rob

[Don C L]

Welcome aboard Capn Rob! Doesn't sound too abnormal, but it does get your attention. Will you be knocked down in 15 knots? No, but it sounds like the gust was probably over 15 kts. It may have felt like 45 degrees, and maybe close, but that is still a long way from 90. Remember that as the boat heels the wind loses its power on the sails and the weight of the keel begins to have a much greater effect on righting the boat. So it is scary at first and there is a danger someone could slip and fall against a coaming or lifelines, but the boat will recover fine. You had a bit too much sail up for the wind conditions. Next time, don't worry about the belly or the vang or that stuff. Pop the mainsheet quick (release it) and the boom will swing out and release the pressure allowing the boat to right itself more quickly. And rounding up works too, but only as long as you have good rudder effectiveness which you may not when heeled over so much. Welcome to sailing!

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by captn_rob

Is it possible for a P26 to get knocked down in 15 knot winds?

VERY unlikely. For the most part it takes a beam on breaking wave to fully knockdown a mono. Do a little reading on sail trim. Yopu may be a sailor that should reef at 15 knots (nothing wrong with that as sometime I do that at 15 if I think it's going to be gusty)

[Be Free]

It sounds to me like a little bit of getting to know your boat, and a little bit about getting to know the area. You may find that the wind is always a little jumbled up with gusts in that area. If that's the case you probably do want to reef before coming back in.

I'm assuming this is the same area that you used to lobster in. In your lobster boat you probably didn't notice what these little gusts were doing because it didn't really affect you that much.

When I switched from power to sail many, many years ago I found that there was some skills that transferred directly, and a lot of new skills that I needed to learn. Congratulations on finding someone to help you develop those new skills.

Welcome aboard!

[captn_rob]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Welcome aboard Capn Rob! Doesn't sound too abnormal, but it does get your attention. Will you be knocked down in 15 knots? No, but it sounds like the gust was probably over 15 kts. It may have felt like 45 degrees, and maybe close, but that is still a long way from 90. Remember that as the boat heels the wind loses its power on the sails and the weight of the keel begins to have a much greater effect on righting the boat. So it is scary at first and there is a danger someone could slip and fall against a coaming or lifelines, but the boat will recover fine. You had a bit too much sail up for the wind conditions. Next time, don't worry about the belly or the vang or that stuff. Pop the mainsheet quick (release it) and the boom will swing out and release the pressure allowing the boat to right itself more quickly. And rounding up works too, but only as long as you have good rudder effectiveness which you may not when heeled over so much. Welcome to sailing!

Thanks! Rounding up was my first impulse as I already had a hand on the tiller. The mainsheet is behind the rudder post on the P26 so would have to turn around to release it. Maybe in the future in similar gusty conditions I should sail with one hand on the tiller and the mainsheet in the other...

[Peregrine1983]

That gust was definitely more than 15 knots. Now you know the meaning of the old adage - "The time to reef is when you first think about it"

[Cheechako]

have the main ready to dump off (release fast!) in gusts. Heading up will make you heel more.. initially anyway.

[captn_rob]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

VERY unlikely. For the most part it takes a beam on breaking wave to fully knockdown a mono. Do a little reading on sail trim. Yopu may be a sailor that should reef at 15 knots (nothing wrong with that as sometime I do that at 15 if I think it's going to be gusty)

I would definitely reef in anything over 15 kts. Up until that point the maximum gust had been 15 so really hadn't considered reefing yet.

[captn_rob]

Originally Posted by Be Free

It sounds to me like a little bit of getting to know your boat, and a little bit about getting to know the area. You may find that the wind is always a little jumbled up with gusts in that area. If that's the case you probably do want to reef before coming back in.

I'm assuming this is the same area that you used to lobster in. In your lobster boat you probably didn't notice what these little gusts were doing because it didn't really affect you that much.

When I switched from power to sail many, many years ago I found that there was some skills that transferred directly, and a lot of new skills that I needed to learn. Congratulations on finding someone to help you develop those new skills.

Welcome aboard!

Thanks.

This is not the first time I noticed the wind being "squirrely" in that spot where the channel narrows but always before was in light wind conditions. Will definitely use more care next time!

[basssears]

In squirrely areas (as opposed to out in more open water) gusts can also be from different wind angles than the "steady" breeze, so be careful if you're going to head up to dump some wind as you can actually load your sails up more if you're steering into more of an upwind / closehauled wind direction (as opposed to actually steering into the wind and releasing the load on your sails). Apparent wind can have an effect here too.


Small boat sailors always sail with one hand on the main sheet, even in our 32' I do that when conditions are squirrely.

[guyrj33]

My Pearson 10M likes to be sailed pretty flat, an early reef in the main can make a difference in how the boat handles, making it more comfortable and controllable without losing speed.
There are a lot of Pearson 26 owners that participate in the google Pearson group.

[thannever]

Originally Posted by captn_rob

Hi all, I am pretty new to sailing but grew up in a lobstering family on the Maine coast and captained my own lobster boat for 14 years so I am very comfortable on the water. I picked up my first sailboat this summer - a 1980 Pearson 26 in exceptional condition - and simply love it! I have a family member who used to race on a J24 crew and he has been showing me the ropes (literally LOL) and I am starting to get the hang of it. This past weekend I took out my family plus one friend for a 6 hour sail. The day was AWESOME. Started out with light winds 5 - 10 knots from the northeast. We have to sail southeast for a few miles to get out of the river mouth where our boat is moored so started out on a dead run with the sails set wing-on-wing. As we got out into open water we sailed out on a broad reach for a few hours just enjoying the day. After we turned to head back, the wind came around to the southeast at 10 - 15 knots. This was quite simply the best sailing I have seen yet - as we sailed back toward the mouth of the river on a beam reach we were hitting speeds over 7 knots and the heel angle was not too extreme - I don't have a gauge but I'm guessing it was around 20 degrees - but probably the maximum heel I am comfortable with. There were other boats around us that looked like they were heeling MUCH more - one sailed past us headed the opposite direction and I could damn near see their keel! (well maybe a bit of exaggeration LOL). As we got back into the mouth of the river the winds started becoming unpredictable. Still generally from the south east but gusty. I still had the sails set for a beam reach with the traveller all the way to leeward and the genoa furled a bit to about the size of a standard jib. Suddenly a gust hit us and heeled us over fast and hard. Felt like over 45 degrees! Passengers screamed and my wife fell off her seat. I immediately steered to windward until we were back on our feet but now I'm a bit worried about it happening again. Is it possible for a P26 to get knocked down in 15 knot winds? That is what it felt like we were headed for. Only thing I can think of is that I had too much belly in the main. I recently installed a topping lift and had it slacked off so the mainsail had the full weight of the boom but I forgot to tighten the vang and the cunningham was loose. In retrospect I should have tightened all these down but I'm still not sure...

Any advice for preventing this in the future would be greatly appreciated.


Captn Rob

reefing early or a smaller headsail works very well for conditions like this and reduces your fun less than what you might think. I take beginners out a lot and about two summers ago I came up with a great technique for dealing with these situations. I had noticed that when we had a gust and heeled hard and unexpectedly most of the guests would make a sound like "ooooh" with a frown on their face. as I had been reading an article on how facial expressions affect your mood I suddenly popped out with the advice, don't say "oooh" say "wheeeee". you naturally smile to make that sound. I was kind of joking when I said it, but my guests tried it and it actually worked. I now give that as standard advice to beginners as part of the presail orientation and it works for almost everyone.

[captn_rob]

Originally Posted by thannever

don't say "oooh" say "wheeeee".

Love it!

[MCOS]

Originally Posted by captn_rob

Love it!

Let the main swing off wind, let it out, or turn to the wind. scary the first few times you experience this but you get used to it and it is part of sailing. Keeps you on your toes :-)

Welcome aboard!

[Lihuedooley77]

1. How about reefing down, single or double reef.

2. Have someone at the main sheet, to release the sheet and let it run out and luff up, spill the air out of it, take the wind pressure off the mainsail. Then after the gust ,sheet it back in again.

3. The main sheet person stays 100 % alert to their crew position and ready to act immediately.

Did not read that you reefed down. Might do that before you leave the docks. Those vessels that you saw sailing with extreme heel had way too much sail up, and should have been reefed down with 100 to 110 % small jibs.

Here is what is going on those vessels.l

1. No longer sailing on the vessels lines, but are bashing along on the side of the hull, with the boats hull laying on the water.

2. Extreme heel, very uncomfortable and scarry. Pax and crew unable to remain balanced. Some will be scared and not sure about their safety.

3. Rounding up into the wind, fighting the wheel with weather helm, vessel not answering to the futile steering inputs. Possible back winding of the jib sail, and the vessel spinning out of control. Possible collisions with other vessels. With strong wind , and too much mainsail, the boat will not fall off when rounding up.

5. Any unsecured personal or boat gear down below going adrift and crashing about the cabin area. Marine head, and berth area doors bashing and banging. Cabinets and drawers opening and their contents smashing onto the cabin sole.

And, there is much more that is occurring and none of it good.

We should have a proper sail plan for the weather and wind and sea conditions.

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With a proper reef in the main, the main sail should be flatter, and we also slide the traveler down a bit for a close reach , in strong winds. Double reefed, less heel, and no strong weather helm . Winds 18 to 22, but fairly steady. Crew and passengers are comfortable and confident.

We are not familiar with your home waters, but have sailed Australia, The south pacific, mexico, calif, much of the caribbean, and greece.

Sounds like the gusty conditions in your home waters may be the norm . That can be challenging if not prepared .

That situation can scare the heck out of family and friends, and reduce their desire for sailing. Like NEVER AGAIN at any time with anyone. That is not the result that you want from your passengers .

As to recruiting a passenger to handle the main. Before departure, ask who would like to help out. Train them, and make them THE MAIN SHEET CAPTAIN. With some early practice and your command, CUT THE MAIN, They will likely get into it and enjoy being part of the crew and the sailing of the boat.

The may also enjoy it so much, that they will want to learn about wind direction and trimming the main and the jib, and handling the helm.

That is what you want. People to come sailing and want to learn more and go out sailing more, and maybe continue on and get their own boat.

You do not want them scared, uncomfortable, doubting that their skipper can keep them safe, afraid that the boat will capsize, etc.