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Old 02-01-2016, 12:13   #151
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Re: Newer boat vs older in same price range

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So, just curious, icedog, are you interested in a list of best-built boats in a certain size range at a price of 280k or less? There is a lot of wisdom here on that topic, but it would help to put down a few of your preferences, what your cruising plans are etc... Hylas, Morris, IP, Hinkley, Little Harbor, Swan... it's a who's who of very nice boats... and there are more! Leaving 20% is smart but you might consider more. Stuff comes up...
I have enjoyed reading every post on this thread so far. My original question left out the individual boats by intent, I was looking to see if technology had rendered older boat manufacturing techniques obsolete. That new technology in glass and composites was far better than those made 20 years ago or that old school craftsmanship made modern boats less desirable. I have been getting quite an education and have really enjoyed the side tracks the thread has taken.


I have also had more time to read other threads and as far as I can tell if I asked 100 of you the best boat in this price range, and for this use, I would get 100 different answers. All would be correct for that responder.

I need to do more real world shopping and sail some of these boats before even considering a purchase, I had hoped it would be a shorter learning curve but it seems this will take longer than I had expected.

I plan on offering my services as crew at several local yachting clubs, to get a chance to test the characteristics of as many different boats as I can, the boats I seems to desire are rarely found in charter fleets. I have added other boats to consider from this thread.

Thanks to all and by all means please continue
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Old 02-01-2016, 13:03   #152
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Re: Newer boat vs older in same price range

Yes, I'd say when you see a boat you like, ask the owners if they need crew next time out as you say, or just interview them a bit. Most folks love to talk about their boats! And then when you go out, spend some time down below and try sleeping in different bunks while underway. You need a boat that can take care of you (solid, sea-worthy, etc) and one that you can easily take care of YOURSELF in while underway when things are not so comfortable. Eating and sleeping are two of the big ones. For that reason, I'd personally be looking at boats with an aft cabin or big quarter berths, because I've slept in those, and they were MUCH better than v-berths or berths in the forward part of the boat, especially on a boat with a flatter hull pounding to weather. Now, there are some who'd much rather have the performance of a flatter hull boat off the wind. For me, since I know I'll be pounding to windward, I want a hull that does that well, as in comfortably, but then that hull may not point as well as another. I don't plan on racing. Every boat is a blend of compromises. Your preferences in boats will change according to your research, what you want to do with it, your own experiences and priorities. And I'd say, there is more than one "perfect" boat. And I don't know what it is, there is probably a math formula for it, but different boats feel different to different people. With bigger boats, you don't always begin to get a good "feel" for it till the wind is up over 20 or 25kts and swells are over 5 feet or so.. in my humble opinion. Many boats look great in the boat show but then are less than convenient and comfortable once out in some weather. Others would probably not garner a moment's notice at a boat show, but you'll find experienced sailors who will sing their praises.
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Old 02-01-2016, 13:15   #153
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Re: Newer boat vs older in same price range

You might look at the site bluewaterboats.org and there is a thread or two here called something like "best bluewater cruisers of all time" or something like that. Those will REALLY get you confused about all the possibilities out there!
Here it is, found it:
Vote On the 'Best Blue Water Cruising Sailboat of All Time'
Vote On the 'Best Blue Water Cruising Sailboat of All Time'
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Old 02-01-2016, 17:23   #154
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Re: Newer boat vs older in same price range

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Let's not over react to the new Hinckley Bermuda 50 design. The other 6 sailboat models the offer still have classic styling. Personally I'm glad. Not really a fan of patterning cruising boats after race boats.
No overreaction, just my opinion. The interior of the B-50 looks like a French nightmare, not the classic cool joinery and hard-crafted artistry that made a "Hinckley" a "Hinckley!"

That aside, I can clearly understand the model of Rolex the new B-50 is aimed at. Moreover, and although SW's are still being offered, there's no getting around the fact that Hinckley has primarily now become a motor boat company.

Being from Maine, and being a life-long Hinckley fan, it makes me sad in some odd way. It would be nice if Hinckley was still owned by a family from Maine. Oh well, stuff happens.
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Old 03-01-2016, 05:00   #155
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Re: Newer boat vs older in same price range

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No overreaction, just my opinion. The interior of the B-50 looks like a French nightmare, not the classic cool joinery and hard-crafted artistry that made a "Hinckley" a "Hinckley!"

That aside, I can clearly understand the model of Rolex the new B-50 is aimed at. Moreover, and although SW's are still being offered, there's no getting around the fact that Hinckley has primarily now become a motor boat company.

Being from Maine, and being a life-long Hinckley fan, it makes me sad in some odd way. It would be nice if Hinckley was still owned by a family from Maine. Oh well, stuff happens.
Great post. French nightmare cracked me up. They're actually quite popular these days but I'm still a fan of boats that look like boats instead of space ships on the outside & condos on the inside.
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Old 03-01-2016, 07:18   #156
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Re: Newer boat vs older in same price range

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Great post. French nightmare cracked me up. They're actually quite popular these days but I'm still a fan of boats that look like boats instead of space ships on the outside & condos on the inside.

Good one! You 'one-upped' me, and simultaneously took the words right out of my mouth. The "Main Sail" Rolex crowd might be satisfied, but what about us traditionalists who love old-school craftsmanship and artistry? Speaking of Jet Boats, I never knew there was such a large market for million-dollar picnic boats. JetSticks. What's next? A Hinckley-Harrier collaboration, with Pratt-Whitney oversized out-hull turbo-lift jet thrusters and retractable F1 fighter wings? Will I need an FAA license?

Hinckley probably hasn't had an order for a new SW-er in years. Time for an update ... with some real teak and mahogany. Hope Hinckley stays afloat.

Signed, The Aging Dinosaur
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Old 03-01-2016, 09:13   #157
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Re: Newer boat vs older in same price range

Hinckley has obviously weathered the recession but I'm not sure what kind of shape the company is in. I found 7 Hinckleys for sale on Yachtworld that were all built in the last 5 years but only 1 was a sailboat, built in 2013. Of course many more probably have been recently built that are not currently for sale. Here's a quote from an ex-Hinckley employee:

“We have suffered from a double impact: the economic downturn and corporate greed.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/10/bu...kley.html?_r=0

2013 Hinckley Sou'wester 42 MKII Sloop Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 03-01-2016, 15:12   #158
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Re: Newer boat vs older in same price range

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Good one! You 'one-upped' me, and simultaneously took the words right out of my mouth. The "Main Sail" Rolex crowd might be satisfied, but what about us traditionalists who love old-school craftsmanship and artistry? Speaking of Jet Boats, I never knew there was such a large market for million-dollar picnic boats. JetSticks. What's next? A Hinckley-Harrier collaboration, with Pratt-Whitney oversized out-hull turbo-lift jet thrusters and retractable F1 fighter wings? Will I need an FAA license?

Hinckley probably hasn't had an order for a new SW-er in years. Time for an update ... with some real teak and mahogany. Hope Hinckley stays afloat.

Signed, The Aging Dinosaur
Hinckley weathered the recession but the market is moving toward power boats and their more profitable to build, they've far outsold the sail portion of Hinckleys line. Of course Martha Stuart has one soooo......
Sabre suspended building sailboats altogether a few years ago and doesn't have any plans of resuming sailboat building until "the market demands are there", it's a shame, I loved Sabre's sailboats.
Apparently the new moneyed Wall Street crowd likes power boats, they no longer have the patience or skill to command a sailboat. So as much as many here say they love those traditional designs apparently no one is buying extremely expensive traditional design sailboats.
It seems those who are buying expensive high quality sailboats have evolved and are buying boats like Outbounds, Hylas, Oyster and Passport yachts which combine quality, comfort and performance with a modern classic look.
The Hinckleys sited here in this string were quite something in their time and were at the forefront when they were designed, but things have changed since then, lets see what's in the future for Hinckley, I'm sure they can modernize their lines without totally disposing the past.
I give them kudos for having the spine to introduce a boat which is such a departure from the current traditional look their tied to, if they build it with the same quality and performance of their past ventures I'm sure people will come to appreciate them.
I like to ruminate about the past but I sure don't want to live there, I still have an old original Triumph motorcycle I've had for 40 years,it looks great, is fun to take for short ride, but I would never take it on a cross country trip, I did that once on a 1969 model and would NEVER do that again. My modern sport tourer is definitely the better choice.
In boats, I like my modern cruiser, it's a much better choice when it comes to long distance comfort and performance. Maybe when I'm older and just want a nice local cruiser with classic looks I'll be looking at an older Hinckley, by then my reduced capability and it's sea kindly nature will be a good match.
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Old 03-01-2016, 19:41   #159
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Re: Newer boat vs older in same price range

I have sailed both for many miles offshore. My opinion is if you want solid safe offshore passage, go with the Hinkley, but if you want OK offshore but lots of living room, chose the IP.
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Old 03-01-2016, 23:40   #160
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Re: Newer boat vs older in same price range

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Hinckley weathered the recession but the market is moving toward power boats and their more profitable to build, they've far outsold the sail portion of Hinckleys line. Of course Martha Stuart has one soooo......
Sabre suspended building sailboats altogether a few years ago and doesn't have any plans of resuming sailboat building until "the market demands are there", it's a shame, I loved Sabre's sailboats.
Apparently the new moneyed Wall Street crowd likes power boats, they no longer have the patience or skill to command a sailboat. So as much as many here say they love those traditional designs apparently no one is buying extremely expensive traditional design sailboats.
It seems those who are buying expensive high quality sailboats have evolved and are buying boats like Outbounds, Hylas, Oyster and Passport yachts which combine quality, comfort and performance with a modern classic look.
The Hinckleys sited here in this string were quite something in their time and were at the forefront when they were designed, but things have changed since then, lets see what's in the future for Hinckley, I'm sure they can modernize their lines without totally disposing the past.
I give them kudos for having the spine to introduce a boat which is such a departure from the current traditional look their tied to, if they build it with the same quality and performance of their past ventures I'm sure people will come to appreciate them.
I like to ruminate about the past but I sure don't want to live there, I still have an old original Triumph motorcycle I've had for 40 years,it looks great, is fun to take for short ride, but I would never take it on a cross country trip, I did that once on a 1969 model and would NEVER do that again. My modern sport tourer is definitely the better choice.
In boats, I like my modern cruiser, it's a much better choice when it comes to long distance comfort and performance. Maybe when I'm older and just want a nice local cruiser with classic looks I'll be looking at an older Hinckley, by then my reduced capability and it's sea kindly nature will be a good match.
All understood, yet still a sad state of affairs (in my book). Then again, Pom Poms, Oreos, and KFC original recipe all don't taste the same as when I was young, so what's the world to do? I like your Triumph analogy, yet I'll still take a thread-bare '69 440 6-pack Roadrunner over anything currently offered from Detroit. Lift-off fiberglass hood and hand-crank windows are just fine with me. I'm from a different generation than many here.

As for Hinckleys, my wife and I have decided that we need much more beam and stowage capacity in a 46-60 footer, and we have no intention of entering any Newport-Bermuda race, so slow and solid is just fine with us. We no longer consider a Hinckley as a viable option, yet if we did, we certainly wouldn't be caught dead in a French-slash-Ikea nightmare interior. We want teak, holly, cherry, and mahogany, and lots of it! We're currently eying used Ted Hood Little Harbors, and we just hope there will be a pristine well-maintained example available when we are ready to buy. We'd rather keep an old Little Harbor looking sharp than zip around in a homely mutt.
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Old 03-01-2016, 23:59   #161
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Re: Newer boat vs older in same price range

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Hinckley has obviously weathered the recession but I'm not sure what kind of shape the company is in. I found 7 Hinckleys for sale on Yachtworld that were all built in the last 5 years but only 1 was a sailboat, built in 2013. Of course many more probably have been recently built that are not currently for sale. Here's a quote from an ex-Hinckley employee:

“We have suffered from a double impact: the economic downturn and corporate greed.”

2013 Hinckley Sou'wester 42 MKII Sloop Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
Christ! A kings ransom, and not even a teak deck. Yawn. Whoever snagged "Bluebell" last year for $495K got a bargain, and then some!
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Old 04-01-2016, 06:05   #162
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Re: Newer boat vs older in same price range

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All understood, yet still a sad state of affairs (in my book). Then again, Pom Poms, Oreos, and KFC original recipe all don't taste the same as when I was young, so what's the world to do? I like your Triumph analogy, yet I'll still take a thread-bare '69 440 6-pack Roadrunner over anything currently offered from Detroit. Lift-off fiberglass hood and hand-crank windows are just fine with me. I'm from a different generation than many here.

As for Hinckleys, my wife and I have decided that we need much more beam and stowage capacity in a 46-60 footer, and we have no intention of entering any Newport-Bermuda race, so slow and solid is just fine with us. We no longer consider a Hinckley as a viable option, yet if we did, we certainly wouldn't be caught dead in a French-slash-Ikea nightmare interior. We want teak, holly, cherry, and mahogany, and lots of it! We're currently eying used Ted Hood Little Harbors, and we just hope there will be a pristine well-maintained example available when we are ready to buy. We'd rather keep an old Little Harbor looking sharp than zip around in a homely mutt.
Yeah, I hear where your coming from, personally I'd go for a Shelby Cobra, an insane horsepower to weight ratio and it goes around corners too. Some of the Cobra kits they make these days are actually an improvement to the original from a handling perspective.
The boat we acquired to go cruising in has plenty of space, a modern hull and rig, and plenty of teak down below. When I found it my wife wasn't really sold until we looked at quite a few other boats, the European look didn't do it for her or me, left us feeling a bit cold, on the other hand the teak deck will be coming off and non-skid will be put down instead. You really can have too much teak, I think the interior teak and the warmth of the salon will be enough for us.
To each their own, that's why there's such a wide range of boats out there, all in all I wouldn't want to be a product planner/marketer for a sailboat manufacturer these days, I don't envy them, one mistake at guessing the market can cause a lot of financial pain to a struggling manufacturer. It's not an easy thing to do.
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Old 04-01-2016, 06:23   #163
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Re: Newer boat vs older in same price range

The family owned Hinckley company evolved from wooden boats to fiberglass which explains why their designs were so attractive. It's difficult to build an ugly wooden boat. Unlike big corporate builders their goal was to design & build the best boats that they could, not try to guess what would sell the most boats. I think Morris has a similar mind set.
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