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Old 24-01-2016, 00:03   #1
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Need opinions on this boat

I need some feedback on this boat. It is an ad off of Craigslist in California. I want to day sail often then increase to weekend trips, a season or two in the sea of cortez and then start a circumnavigation in 3-5 years. If I bought the boat I would live aboard right away. In my mind I had a $50k budget plus refit money but this boat checks all the same boxes for much less money. Asking price is $12k (more refit/cruising money).

Here is the ad; "For sale here is my wonderful CT35 cutter rigged ketch. She is a solidly built blue water cruiser, sister ship to the famed Tayana 37 (without the canoe stern that gives the extra 2') but much rarer. This is a boat is for a lover of the classics, evocative of the tall ships from her shroud mounted nav lights and fife rails w/belaying pins to her elegant ships wheel. Her dramatic sheer line sweeps upward to a traditional bowsprit giving her the look of a much larger ship. The interior is beautifully hand crafted in Burmese golden teak all done in Hershoff joinery. She offers rugged construction, pleasing looks, seakindly accommodations, an easily managed sail plan and an ability to tick off the miles no matter the wind or seas. Equipped with a full suite of sails including an light wind Genoa, powered by a workhorse Volvo-Penta MD11C with a three blade 16x12 prop (she nearly idles at 4 knots!), ground tackle is handled by a CQR on 300' chain with a backup Fortress on 80' chain to 200' rode, in the galley is a Shipmate three burner w/oven stainless propane stove, worm-drive steering which is almost an autopilot, Kyocera 140w solar panel with Morningstar duo charge controller to keep the batteries happy and a Wilcox-Crittenden head to take care of the rest (those things can flush down the NY Times Sunday edition). As the second owner of this vessel I have full documentation right down to the "New boat order form" before she was laid up. She has been gently used and served as a comfortable liveaboard, had weddings performed aboard and plenty of parties (oh lordy), now she seeks a new owner. One who is willing to do a little sanding and painting, a bit of fixing up. But don't doubt that she isn't ready to go to sea at a moments notice. The price reflects that she has minor needs, she is easily worth more than twice what I'm asking."

Things I like about the boat; heavy displacement, flexible sail plan for single and double handing, great tankage 120gal of water and 80gal of fuel.

I talked on the phone with the current Captain for about 20 minutes (I have not seen the boat). The boats original owner really used it as a showpiece and didn't sail it that much. He had it at a private dock off his home (salt water). Hence the diesel only has 1100hrs. The fuel tanks need to be taken out and scrubbed. The Capt. uses the boat about 3 months a year. The other 9 months he works as a delivery capt. and works on others boats for a living. I would imagine he has maintained it. He removes the sails and keeps them indoors when not on the boat.

The standing rigging was replaced about 5 years ago but the masts are timber and are original. Probably fine for day sails but probably need to be replaced before a serious ocean crossing. Thoughts? Prices to replace (probably with aluminum) two masts?

Also not a big fan of teak decks. He says they are water tight so far. Also, no soft spots

Bottom paint is about 2 1/2 years old. Can I get one more year out of it?

The boat has minimal amount of electronics which I could add over a few years. Only has a VHF radio.

Anyway, I love the looks of a cutter as well as the sweeping sheerline. Overall a beautiful boat. Of course I'' have it hauled out and surveyed.

Thanks for any feedback,

Dave
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Old 24-01-2016, 00:07   #2
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Re: Need opinions on this boat

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Old 24-01-2016, 00:39   #3
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Re: Need opinions on this boat

get a good surveyor.
lovely boat.
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Old 24-01-2016, 00:42   #4
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Re: Need opinions on this boat

Well she certainly looks a beauty. Among the several plusses, only two owners is high on the list, and she does look well maintained. I may be being unobservant… but I see no mention of hull material? The price does seem low. The question is why? If it is merely that this is an older design (she will not be fast… but will be seakindly for sure) then great… but why no mention of hull material? Is she wood entire?

As to the wood masts… why replace them? If they are sound wood is a fine material for a mast.
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Old 24-01-2016, 01:01   #5
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Re: Need opinions on this boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga View Post
Well she certainly looks a beauty. Among the several plusses, only two owners is high on the list, and she does look well maintained. I may be being unobservant… but I see no mention of hull material? The price does seem low. The question is why? If it is merely that this is an older design (she will not be fast… but will be seakindly for sure) then great… but why no mention of hull material? Is she wood entire?

As to the wood masts… why replace them? If they are sound wood is a fine material for a mast.
Fiberglass hull

With regard to the masts I have it in my mind that 40 yo is old for any mast. Is this correct? The masts are keel stepped. Will a surveyor be able to check them for rot? I was reading another thread that mentioned that painted wood masts can rot from the inside and is difficult to detect.

The SA/D is 16.5 for this ketch version. The sailboatdata info is for the cutter only and the SA/D is less than 12. That seems rather anemic.
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Old 24-01-2016, 01:17   #6
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Re: Need opinions on this boat

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Fiberglass hull

With regard to the masts I have it in my mind that 40 yo is old for any mast. Is this correct? The masts are keel stepped. Will a surveyor be able to check them for rot? I was reading another thread that mentioned that painted wood masts can rot from the inside and is difficult to detect.

The SA/D is 16.5 for this ketch version. The sailboatdata info is for the cutter only and the SA/D is less than 12. That seems rather anemic.
Well, a fiberglass hull is a good thing. Though 40 yo puts it close to the oil crisis. Try and determine if it was pre or post. Pre is better by and large as post resins tended to be thinned to cut costs and osmosis became a big problem.

Painted wood is harder to examine of course. I am not a surveyor so you will need to ask someone else (say, a surveyor ) about that. However I would expect that a hammer test would be able to reveal a lot about the rot status of the masts. There is no particular reason that they would not be sound, however. A good friend of mine, Mark Slats, bought a Gypsy Moth class steel boat with wooden masts, from the mid sixties vintage (with a gardner diesel engine from 1948!) around 15 years ago. He has recently completed (minus the Tasman) his second cirucmavigation on her, including one solo, nonstop. During the latter in the Southern Ocean he was rolled completely through six times… and the masts, which are wood and original, stayed up! Likely this was exactly because they were wood, and ketch rigged so fairly low. So I wouldn't discount them just becuase they are wood!

More likely you will be wanting to retrofit some furlers and modern electronics/radar etc. Those will be pretty pricey. The rig is a little finicky for single/short handing, and slightly worrying to have the headsail so high and far out. Not a big deal but I would definitely change this to a roller for your intentions. That said the rig is versatile and excellent for long range cruising from a defensive sailing standpoint. As to SA/D… what do you mean "anemic"? This boat is never going to win any races… but is that what you want her for? To me, without further knowledge, she looks like quite a bargain. But without any doubt she will have less living area than a comparable modern boat. As to seaworthiness? She looks strong to me.
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Old 24-01-2016, 01:22   #7
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Re: Need opinions on this boat

The greatest point of weakness on this vessel is likely to be the bowsprit. Pay careful attention to this area. I have seen a few older ones fail rather suddenly. The inner forestay inboard makes this less of a worry, though. And that'd be one fantastic place to ride on a trade wind run!
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Old 24-01-2016, 01:27   #8
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Re: Need opinions on this boat

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Well, a fiberglass hull is a good thing. Though 40 yo puts it close to the oil crisis. Try and determine if it was pre or post. Pre is better by and large as post resins tended to be thinned to cut costs and osmosis became a big problem.

Painted wood is harder to examine of course. I am not a surveyor so you will need to ask someone else (say, a surveyor ) about that. However I would expect that a hammer test would be able to reveal a lot about the rot status of the masts. There is no particular reason that they would not be sound, however. A good friend of mine, Mark Slats, bought a Gypsy Moth class steel boat with wooden masts, from the mid sixties vintage (with a gardner diesel engine from 1948!) around 15 years ago. He has just completed his second cirucmavigation on her, including one solo, nonstop. During the latter in the Southern Ocean he was rolled completely through six times… and the masts, which are wood and original, stayed up! Likely this was exactly because they were wood, and ketch rigged so fairly low. So I wouldn't discount them just becuase they are wood!

More likely you will be wanting to retrofit some furlers and modern electronics/radar etc. Those will be pretty pricey. The rig is a little finicky for single/short handing, and slightly worrying to have the headsail so high and far out. Not a big deal but I would definitely change this to a roller for your intentions. That said the rig is versatile and excellent for long range cruising from a sailing standpoint. As to SA/D… what do you mean "anemic"? This boat is never going to win any races… but is that what you want her for? To me, without further knowledge, she looks like quite a bargain. But without any doubt she will have less living area than a comparable modern boat. As to seaworthiness? She looks strong to me.
Thanks for all the feedback. Wow, rolled six times and lived to tell about it. That's amazing!

They made this boat in two versions, regular cutter and cutter rigged ketch. The straight cutter seams slow. Same displacement with less sail. The ketch seems fine; like you said, not gonna win any races.

Thanks again.
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Old 24-01-2016, 01:36   #9
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Re: Need opinions on this boat

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Thanks for all the feedback. Wow, rolled six times and lived to tell about it. That's amazing!

They made this boat in two versions, regular cutter and cutter rigged ketch. The straight cutter seams slow. Same displacement with less sail. The ketch seems fine; like you said, not gonna win any races.

Thanks again.
Thanks for the thanks

As to Mark… the guy is larger than life in many ways. Wonderful character. Had no money for the boat when he first saw it, and had never sailed at all. He had only just met a cruising couple who inspired him to do it. So he went all in: won the money to buy her fighting (K1 Australia I think, Mark's ex Dutch military and giant of a guy), and just lit out for Holland. Read about Gypsy Moth on the way, and decided to do a nonstop solo, so he did. You mean some interesting people "out there"
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Old 24-01-2016, 01:44   #10
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Re: Need opinions on this boat

Oh, and about the decks, they can be a worry yes. Are they screw down or glue down? Any indication as to remaining thickness (clues can be found around deck fittings where the original thickness may be preserved)? What is the deck made of (so, balsa cored fibergass sandwich topped with teak)? I doubt they are only teak…
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Old 24-01-2016, 02:19   #11
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Re: Need opinions on this boat (Ta Chiao 35)

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Oh, and about the decks, they can be a worry yes. Are they screw down or glue down? Any indication as to remaining thickness (clues can be found around deck fittings where the original thickness may be preserved)? What is the deck made of (so, balsa cored fibergass sandwich topped with teak)? I doubt they are only teak…
Yeah, not a lot of info on these boats. My guess is they only made around 30. I don't think the have balsa core but maybe just glassed in plywood. The owner said a few interested parties brought friends that were surveyors and they didn't find any soft spots on the deck. Of course caveat emptor.
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Old 24-01-2016, 08:33   #12
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Re: Need opinions on this boat

This won't be on the market long I'm thinking. Perfect specs for cruiser. Survey advised of course unless you're competent enough to spend a day or two going through her. Seems like a 50/50 crap shoot with surveyors. Well worth the 12 k.
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Old 24-01-2016, 08:39   #13
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Re: Need opinions on this boat

Get a competent SAIL BOAT surveyor! Many surveyors talk a good game but you want a Specialist who can really deal with rigging!
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Old 24-01-2016, 08:44   #14
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Re: Need opinions on this boat

I think I recognize that boat. It's in the same Marina I'm in. You want me to walk over and take a quick look at it?

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Old 24-01-2016, 09:47   #15
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Re: Need opinions on this boat

CT clipper boats have wooden topsides and wooden decks. Only the hull is fiberglass. Funny as it may seem, look for termites and termite damage. A lot of the plywood used was not "marine" grade(meaning no voids in the laminate).
Otherwise, comfy and solid sailing boats.
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