Need opinions on this boat

[grantmc]

Whoever buys that boat, click here for the Craigs listing link, is actually getting $12,000 worth of gear with a free boat thrown in. Get real. She's a beautiful yacht and will do anyone proud. But she's getting on and even the advert states she needs some TLC. To keep her in good condition she's always going to need a fair effort of maintenance given her age. Virtually everything about that boat (and on the boat) is 40 probably 50 years old (ask the guy when she was built as he says he has the original order form). Someone mentioned prior to 73 was better, and I agree with that. They certainly used much more fibre glass as they weren't really confident about the 'new' material they were using and so tended to heavily over build.

She's a boat that needs an owner who enjoys tinkering with boats and is handy with tools. If not she will consume huge amounts of money very quickly.

But it concerns me that you asked:

Originally Posted by LLCoolDave

Bottom paint is about 2 1/2 years old. Can I get one more year out of it?

The answer to the question is NO you wont. In fact it is well overdue and and likely also desperately needs anodes replaced. Replacing anti foul is a simple job and something the new owner would need to look forward to and enjoy. So why would you think you might put it off for a year? Also it's a cheap job as far as yachts are concerned. She'll need about 8 litres (I think that's 2 gallons in your strange language?), plus travel lift in/out, water blast, anodes of course and on the hard for at most 9 days over two weekends. I personally would hope and plan to get the entire job done in a single weekend (weather depending) and all up cost under $1,000. So that question on its own suggests to me that she may not be the boat for you? Just saying.

You also asked about replacing the timber masts. And you've had some reassurance about their strength and longevity. So logically the next question is, if timber masts are so good why for the last 40-50 years have most boats been built with aluminium masts? I would suggest many would respond it's because aluminium requires so much less maintenance than timber. And that's the thing about the boat you have your eye on, she'll need lots of maintenance. I'd guess those masts will need new paint every 4-5 years to keep looking nice. Not an especially difficult job, but tedious and time consuming; you know sand, paint, let dry and repeat 5-6 times.

I'd encourage you to seek the services of a surveyor. Prior to buying my current boat I organised a surveyor and a lift at the marina where she was moored (yes of course owner's permission). As soon as she was lifted I gave her a water blast. The surveyor arrived with his hammer. Cost was $120 for the lift and water blaster. Surveyor charged me an hourly rate (including travel time) and all up it 4 was hours at $60 ph (including a very professional report he emailed to me within a few days). I must add he was marvelous and very positive. He explained everything he was doing/looking for as he went about his business. His report had no surprises and basically provided a maintenance schedule for the next 5 years, plus made getting insurance simple. The entire survey took place as she hung in the travel lift.

I should add I'd already taken her for an afternoon sail the week before and the survey was my final step before negotiating the actual sale. I was serious about the boat by then and so paying for the lift and water blasting was in my long term interest. Luckily (for me) the deceased owner must have anti fouled within weeks of his death. (As an aside he actually had a heart attack changing the fore sail (hanks not furler). There was just himself and his crew. His crewman just tied him on to the forestay. His wife told me he loved the boat and so he died doing what he loved. I sometimes wonder will I do the same? Anyway back on topic!

As well as the peace of mind what he also did for me was confirm I'd found a very good value yacht. In fact she was (in my mind) a real bargain due probably to the deceased owner's wife not really knowing anything about boats, how to sell etc. But also after a year just left sitting at her mooring she looked very unloved. So I obviously was very keen to keep the details about the boat secret until I'd bought her in case some other bugger beat me to her.

Anyways I've a busy day ahead so can't hang around the forum all day. I've heard about this awesome white ketch for sale and I trying to get hold of the owner...

[bsurvey]

Taiwanese piece of junk


walk away from this old rotten money pit.


go get a Catalina

[Simonsays]

Originally Posted by bsurvey

Taiwanese piece of junk
walk away from this old rotten money pit.

it's always the junk that survives 40 years, the good boats all get scrapped in between right? ,)

[reed1v]

Wooden masts if made of spruce will last as long as the boat assuming 1. they are sheathed in glass, painted with epoxy and then a layer of poly; 2. all fittings are bedded in either a silicone or other water proof puddy so no water can get to the wood. Spruce trees seldom break, they simply fall over as their roots rip out of the ground. Extremely tough wood. Our 120 year old folk boat(friendship sloop) is doing quite well with nothing replaced down through the generations. The hull is pickled every two years in salt water(sunk) and the masts were done as described above back in the 1970s. since then the masts have not been touched except for a poly recoat. Wood if taken care of will last.

[akprb]

CT's and many of the Taiwanese boats of that vintage suffered deck rot issues. Get a survey with rose glasses off. (Find a surveyor who knows the boats) Short of that she would take you anywhere.

[gjordan]

CTs are a common boat, and are noted for beautiful wood interiors, but also noted for rotten decks underneath the teak. I would recommend finding a good wooden boat surveyor, not a surveyor that does Catalinas and Benies most of the time. Most of the problems with CTs will be located in the wood. They are also noted (along with almost all Taiwan built boats of the era) for less than wonderful wiring. That is not to say that this is a bad boat, just be careful and know that any boat that age will have some problems. I would also be leery of an owner that says it is almost a sistership to a Tayana 37. That sounds like he wants to impress a newbie with what sounds like false information. Look for a CT owners group on the web, and you will probably find lots of info on the boat. The good equipment list on the boat is a real plus for a future cruiser. Best of luck, ____Grant.

[reed1v]

CT boats were mostly very well made for world cruising. We worked on quite a few and found them well built and seaworthy, unlike a lot of the fiberglass stuff we had come into the yards over the years. Many were made with American metal fittings. The hulls were way overbuilt.

[reed1v]

For that low price, just buy the thing. That is a great deal and will not last long. Some yard will buy it to fix up and sell for three times the price.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by LLCoolDave

I need some feedback on this boat. It is an ad off of Craigslist in California. I want to day sail often then increase to weekend trips, a season or two in the sea of cortez and then start a circumnavigation in 3-5 years. If I bought the boat I would live aboard right away. In my mind I had a $50k budget plus refit money but this boat checks all the same boxes for much less money. Asking price is $12k (more refit/cruising money).

Here is the ad; "For sale here is my wonderful CT35 cutter rigged ketch. She is a solidly built blue water cruiser, sister ship to the famed Tayana 37 (without the canoe stern that gives the extra 2') but much rarer. This is a boat is for a lover of the classics, evocative of the tall ships from her shroud mounted nav lights and fife rails w/belaying pins to her elegant ships wheel. Her dramatic sheer line sweeps upward to a traditional bowsprit giving her the look of a much larger ship. The interior is beautifully hand crafted in Burmese golden teak all done in Hershoff joinery. She offers rugged construction, pleasing looks, seakindly accommodations, an easily managed sail plan and an ability to tick off the miles no matter the wind or seas. Equipped with a full suite of sails including an light wind Genoa, powered by a workhorse Volvo-Penta MD11C with a three blade 16x12 prop (she nearly idles at 4 knots!), ground tackle is handled by a CQR on 300' chain with a backup Fortress on 80' chain to 200' rode, in the galley is a Shipmate three burner w/oven stainless propane stove, worm-drive steering which is almost an autopilot, Kyocera 140w solar panel with Morningstar duo charge controller to keep the batteries happy and a Wilcox-Crittenden head to take care of the rest (those things can flush down the NY Times Sunday edition). As the second owner of this vessel I have full documentation right down to the "New boat order form" before she was laid up. She has been gently used and served as a comfortable liveaboard, had weddings performed aboard and plenty of parties (oh lordy), now she seeks a new owner. One who is willing to do a little sanding and painting, a bit of fixing up. But don't doubt that she isn't ready to go to sea at a moments notice. The price reflects that she has minor needs, she is easily worth more than twice what I'm asking."

Things I like about the boat; heavy displacement, flexible sail plan for single and double handing, great tankage 120gal of water and 80gal of fuel.

I talked on the phone with the current Captain for about 20 minutes (I have not seen the boat). The boats original owner really used it as a showpiece and didn't sail it that much. He had it at a private dock off his home (salt water). Hence the diesel only has 1100hrs. The fuel tanks need to be taken out and scrubbed. The Capt. uses the boat about 3 months a year. The other 9 months he works as a delivery capt. and works on others boats for a living. I would imagine he has maintained it. He removes the sails and keeps them indoors when not on the boat.

The standing rigging was replaced about 5 years ago but the masts are timber and are original. Probably fine for day sails but probably need to be replaced before a serious ocean crossing. Thoughts? Prices to replace (probably with aluminum) two masts?

Also not a big fan of teak decks. He says they are water tight so far. Also, no soft spots

Bottom paint is about 2 1/2 years old. Can I get one more year out of it?

The boat has minimal amount of electronics which I could add over a few years. Only has a VHF radio.

Anyway, I love the looks of a cutter as well as the sweeping sheerline. Overall a beautiful boat. Of course I'' have it hauled out and surveyed.

Thanks for any feedback,

Dave

Get back when you have seen her. Make notes with questions to ask.
Good luck.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by reed1v

CT boats were mostly very well made for world cruising...

Come on!

Originally Posted by gjordan

...I would also be leery of an owner that says it is almost a sistership to a Tayana 37. That sounds like he wants to impress a newbie with what sounds like false information...

This. He's selling a Bill Garden clipper, not a Bob Perry double-ender.

This boat is about the worst choice one could make for day sailing. It is a heavy cruiser, not a performance boat. And I can assure you it will require many 10's of thousands of dollars to refit it from a live-aboard to a seaworthy vessel.

RUN!

[sailnow2011]

Decks don't leak, and I am a 12 year old girl.

[Cheechako]

I'm intimately familiar with CT. (Ta Chaio) The hulls are thick layup and strong. Often the Seacocks are the traditional bronze tapered type and are good quality. Tabbing of bulkheads etc can be sloppy with a lot of sharp , not fully wetted parts of the glass work. But generally mostly aesthetic issues.
Watch out for decks, deck cores and cabins. Depending on the year…. the cabin and or deck may be cheap asian plywood with glass over. These are quite often a big problem. Add to that teak decks screwed into the deck (even if it’s true fiberglass)and you have wet core. Often this core is cheap plywood squares.
You are going to want a good surveyor that “tells it like it is” on this type of boat. If original wiring it is likely on it’s last leg as they used poorly done wire ends and not tinned copper wiring.
Tanks may be a problem also, often they put SS in the bilge and they go bad fast.
The rudder will likely be waterlogged also.

These issues are not only CT issues, but they do prevail on many CT’s and especially on older 70’s ones.
Be very careful. Without knowing more, my guess would be you will put $30-50k into that boat. Find one that the PO has already spent that money and wants out... if this owner hasn't yet. A Westsail 32 may be as big as that , sail as well, probably $35k and less issues.
I wouldnt worry about the bottom paint at this point , it is not very effective anyway, you can deal with that later

[Scout 30]

A lot of guessing going on here. Those saying run could be right. Those saying it's a great deal could be right. Any boat that age could have serious deck issues but it might not. Any boat of any age could have serious issues. 2 things are clear, the asking price is very low, a red flag, & a really good survey is a must. I did find an interesting thread about CTs on sail.net that you might want to read: 1976 41'' TA CHIAO CT ?????? - SailNet Community

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I'm intimately familiar with CT. (Ta Chaio) The hulls are thick layup and strong. Often the Seacocks are the traditional bronze tapered type and are good quality. Tabbing of bulkheads etc can be sloppy with a lot of sharp , not fully wetted parts of the glass work. But generally mostly aesthetic issues.
Watch out for decks, deck cores and cabins. Depending on the year…. the cabin and or deck may be cheap asian plywood with glass over. These are quite often a big problem. Add to that teak decks screwed into the deck (even if it’s true fiberglass)and you have wet core. Often this core is cheap plywood squares.
You are going to want a good surveyor that “tells it like it is” on this type of boat. If original wiring it is likely on it’s last leg as they used poorly done wire ends and not tinned copper wiring.
Tanks may be a problem also, often they put SS in the bilge and they go bad fast.
The rudder will likely be waterlogged also.

These issues are not only CT issues, but they do prevail on many CT’s and especially on older 70’s ones.
Be very careful. Without knowing more, my guess would be you will put $30-50k into that boat. Find one that the PO has already spent that money and wants out... if this owner hasn't yet. A Westsail 32 may be as big as that , sail as well, probably $35k and less issues.

Well if the decks really are ply that is a significant concern. Ply is among the worst material for decking in general, as throughull leakage wicks laterally and can lead to really large areas of mush like rot. Its going to be hard to determine, if it is below the teak. Before buying this craft I would want to pull some of the deck fitting bolts out and use a pick to find out what's going on with the core. A few bucks to the owner for rebedding isn't much to pay for walking away with a sense of relief… or else purchase with forekonwledge.

[gjordan]

I just re-read the sellers description of the boat, (not saying it is a bad boat) but that is the most BS listing I have seen in a long time. Again, a good survey will tell you a lot, but I would not trust much of what the seller says. Your worry about a Cutter vs a Ketch is just a worry. Most old sailors have a preference, but either rig will get you anywhere in the world you want to go. Sail and rig condition is what matters. You will learn how to sail whatever boat you buy. Most surveyors wont go up the mast to inspect, so check around about a rigger that will do it. It is more important with wood masts, but if they are in good condition, I would not consider that a deal breaker. If it looks like fresh paint (rather than varnish) on the masts, worry about someone trying to hide rot. Make sure you dont use a surveyor or rigger recommended by the seller. Most surveyors are ethical, but there are some that are not. Good Luck. _____Grant.