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Old 13-05-2009, 20:40   #16
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Tropic cat - I have to take isuue with the word "safer" Most threads on this subject discuss safety when comparing cats and mono's. As safe maybe personnaly I am not convinced but safer "crap". As for speed yes on some tacks but not in many cases after you load the boat with cruising gear, unless you go for a much larger vessel which in turn puts the price up even further for a suitable Cat. Like many of these discussions price comparison is not used. If I asked which boat would be safer between a 100ft mega mono yacht and a well constructed 35/40ft cat to cross an ocean which one would most choose including the comfort factor.
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Old 13-05-2009, 21:17   #17
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It sounds like you had made your decision before you started this thread.
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Old 14-05-2009, 03:02   #18
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The only way to figure it out for yourself is to sail on one. It's really a matter of taste and you either love 'em or you hate 'em, and Catophobes will never convince Catophiles, or vice-versa.

My own first experience with two hulls was a couple of weeks in the Caribbean on a bare-boat charter. For what it's worth, which may be very little, I didn't like it. And the list of things I didn't like would be long*. But you might love it -- lots of people do.

The catophiles here will give you tons of statistics which have somewhat convinced me that there is no big practical difference in safety.


My totally subjective list of likes and dislikes of one lifelong mono sailor after two weeks on a cat:

Likes:

1. Two widely spaced engines -- redundancy, manueverability (a big advantage). Better than a bow thruster!

2. Shallow draft for such a big boat (a really, really big advantage, maybe even a decisive advantage in the Caribbean).

3. Good view from salon & galley (but deck salon monos are not much worse).

4. Trampoline makes a great space (my wife loved it!).


Dislikes:

1. Uncomfortable motion at sea (to my taste). A weird flicking, crabbing motion and a lot of noise from waves between the hulls. I didn't like it. For me, a good mono goes through the waves like a horse cantering -- a harmonious, pleasant feeling. But of course that is totally subjective.

2. Can't tell when you need to reef -- no heel to tell you when the boat is overpowered. Scary and unpleasant! Catophiles will say you get used to that; maybe they're right.

3. Feels really scary to me in big seas (again, subjective, and maybe due to inexperience). I had an acute sensation that the cat would prefer to be inverted, and that I'd better be really, really careful how to tackle the big waves.

4. Spaces inside the two small hulls are not as nice as the spaces inside the one bigger hull of a mono (this applies only to sleeping cabins and heads)

5. Helm position (this varies from cat to cat; this one was a Norseman), poor visibility, very poor bracing for rough seas.

6. No decks to wander around on (but rear cockpit monos and all monos less than about 45' dont' have this either, to be fair)

7. Dances at anchor (minor disadvantage).

8. Beam is a disadvantage in maneuvering and docking (but two engines a great advantage)

9. Really ugly compared to a mono. (I'll get flamed for that, I'm sure. Obviously that is totally subjective).


I didn't mention a number of traditional cat advantages (and disadvantages). That's not because I forgot, but because I didn't find them to exist in my two weeks of experience:

1. Speed. The boat we had was not faster than a mono of comparable volume. I know that cats must be much faster than monos in some conditions, but I just didn't experienced it. We were in rough conditions (Windwards in the off season) so maybe I was over-reefing due to lack of feel for the right power level.

2. Isolation of one hull from the other. I guess that's an advantage compared to some monos, but a center cockpit mono with aft cabin has the same properties.

3. Allegedly fantastic salon/galley layout. I didn't like it (other than the view). A 49' center cockpit deck salon mono has a much better layout, with seating on both sides of the salon, and the galley somewhat separated in the passage to the aft cabin.

4. No heel. I don't mind heeling, and the degree of heel gives an excellent feel for the amount of power, which I sorely missed on the cat. So this did not seem like much of an advantage to me, although I guess for passengers who want to cook or use the toilet or take a shower in a seaway (as opposed to the guy behind the helm), it's a great thing.

5. Cats don't point -- poor windward performance. I didn't experience this. The cat we rented was not all that fast, but it pointed as well as mono cruising boats of similar LWL of my experience.


My own totally subjective and frankly monocentric view is that cats are great party boats in the Caribbean and other shallow, tropical waters, for good weather. I wouldn't want to go on a long passage in one. In rough weather or northern latitudes, and all the more, at night, I would really not like to be on a cat. Monos just make more sense to me for most purposes, certainly for mine.

But I would gladly go out on a cat again with an open mind, just never again (!) as skipper. It would be interesting to sail with an experienced cat skipper. I'm sure I would learn a lot and it might change my mind about some of these things.

Now one of our erudite and eloquent catophiles will give you a completely different view, I'm sure.
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Old 14-05-2009, 03:23   #19
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It is very simple:

If this question is started in the Monohull section, you know in which way it takes off.
If it is in Multihull section, the same is true :-)

Feel happy with your decision and YES, you are right.
And so are the others.

regards

Michael
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Old 14-05-2009, 03:58   #20
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Always seems to be some folk getting excited on both sides. Never really understood why - yer pays yer money and makes yer choice. I've made mine (30 foot mono) and have no interest in converting anyone else nor defending my choice. I know what I have chosen and why (and the compromises I have accepted) and yes, cost was of course a factor - why would I truly care what someone else thinks of my choice?

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Originally Posted by meyermm View Post
I have to take isuue with the word "safer" Most threads on this subject discuss safety when comparing cats and mono's. As safe maybe personnaly I am not convinced but safer "crap".
Probably a feeling of being safer, hence also the attraction for spouses.

FWIW given the right circumstances I wouldn't turn my nose up at a Cat. or a Tri But in the real world can't see that happening anytime soon.
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Old 14-05-2009, 04:52   #21
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Always seems to be some folk getting excited on both sides. Never really understood why - ...
Seems to me that there are a small number of multihull owners on here who periodically get anxiety attacks and have to reassure themselves they have got the right kind of boat and that it will float.

Have personally never come across others with various numbers of hulls who seem to be so concerned about whether their boat will float or not as they seem to be or display such a high level of anxiety about the inherent safety of boats.

Maybe it strikes them at the start of summer or maybe in a while when they get more confidence and experience in their cats they will relax a bit? But their concerns certainly smack of unworldliness as to marine matters or some level of unhealthy insecurity in that environment as can be common with newcomers to it or those not brought up close to it.
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Old 14-05-2009, 05:03   #22
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Tropic cat - I have to take isuue with the word "safer"
Go right ahead and take issue. There's a lot more data available these days compared to when some of those threads you mentioned were started.

Don't you find it compelling that 100% of cruising catamaran owners were former monohull owners? I would also mention (somewhat tongue in cheek) that the 40 -50 catamaran owners who post on this forum over the years, are all still alive and all still own catamarans. Now there's a statistic for ya!!
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Old 14-05-2009, 06:10   #23
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Thanks MidlandOne, that was clever. Instead of attacking the boats themselves, attack the owners of multihulls as suffering from anxiety and being in need of reassurance because they are unworldly and inexperienced. I suggest that the multi-owners who defend the inherent safety of their boats are not suffering from anxiety, but rather are tired of defending themselves and their vessels against generalized attacks that are unsupported by either statistics, or logic.

Regardless, history has proven that this is a tired thread that will go nowhere. There is no 'correct' answer as to which is more safe - it will depend upon the design/contruction/maintenance of the individual vessel, the conditions/circumstances the vessel encounters, the strategy used to combat/survive them, the seamanship/skill displayed by the crew and a certain degree of luck.

There is a phenomenon in psychology known as 'cognitive dissonance', wherein the internal debates/agonizing over significant choices becomes replaced by single mindedness/bias once a choice is made. I suspect that both sides in this 'debate' provide evidence of the same.

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Old 14-05-2009, 06:21   #24
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It's kind of hard to not respond when someone leaves remark like this.

Seems to me that there are a small number of multihull owners on here who periodically get anxiety attacks and have to reassure themselves they have got the right kind of boat and that it will float.

Have personally never come across others with various numbers of hulls who seem to be so concerned about whether their boat will float or not as they seem to be or display such a high level of anxiety about the inherent safety of boats.

Maybe it strikes them at the start of summer or maybe in a while when they get more confidence and experience in their cats they will relax a bit? But their concerns certainly smack of unworldliness as to marine matters or some level of unhealthy insecurity in that environment as can be common with newcomers to it or those not brought up close to it.


That in itself sounds like insecurity to me.........i2f
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Old 14-05-2009, 06:27   #25
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So, I ask them. Would they go back to a mono? 100% say that the Catamaran they own will be their last sail boat.
I went from a trimaran back to a mono - and owning that boat reinforced the idea one needs to be careful about stereotypical arguments about boats. It just didn't preform well in any seas, but I know many multi-hulls would have in those same conditions.

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wonder what percentage of sailors would own a Cat if the purchase price wasn't so steep?
I'd be in a Cat in a second, though I realize there are already a few that represent great values, like your Catalac. I came real close to buying one of those several years ago. (Though they are still more than my most recently purchased monohull.)

With more and more people buying new catamarans these days, I'm hoping the price of used ones will be notably down in another 5 years.
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Old 14-05-2009, 06:32   #26
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Thanks MidlandOne, that was clever. Instead of attacking the boats themselves, attack the owners of multihulls as suffering from anxiety and being in need of reassurance because they are unworldly and inexperienced...
Read my post - I did not "attack the owners of multihulls". I said "that there are a small number of multihull owners on here who periodically get anxiety attacks...". No doubt there are also mono and power boat (mono and multi) sailers, canoe paddlers, rowers, etc, etc that have the same sort of attacks but they don't seem to display them in public so I can make no comment about them.

I actually do not see any attacks on multihulls here only a small number of multihull owners who seem to see threats behind every word they can construe as perhaps not full of praise for multihulls. They respond in an extraordinarily defensive way - just as you have done by claiming I am attacking, just because you don't like my comment does not make it an attack, and by you turning my comment into an "attack" on all multihull owners whereas I made it clear that I only referred to "a small number" of them.

It appears that some of that "small number" are so sensitive about it all they felt that they had to resurrect on old thread which most of us had probably hoped had died a well deserved death way back in December last year.
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Old 14-05-2009, 06:50   #27
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Here we go. Get a beer and sit back for the fireworks.
These threads rank right up there with gun threads and "which anchor is best" threads.
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Old 14-05-2009, 06:59   #28
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The answer:

C'mon, this is easy... Go Mono now, and get a multi when you're too old to sail!
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Old 14-05-2009, 07:10   #29
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Midlandone, I didn't say that you attacked all multihullers - although clearly your attack, and that is what it was, was aimed at multihullers who were prepard to defend their craft (and no other group). It was insulting and unhelpful: did you really believe that by labelling people who have opinions at variance with our own as unworldy, in need of reassurance and suffering from anxiety as advancing a debate? Or were you hoping that by insulting those who dared publicly defend the record of multihulls on issues of safety, that you could stifle debate? Perhaps in your obvious angst you just didn't think.

Further, I would suggest that if you haven't seen attacks on multihulls on this site before, then you are suffering from more than merely 'cognitive dissonance'.

Finally, I didn't realize that this thread was started by a current/past owner of a multihull. I thought it started with a question from someone seeking some unbiased answers about the advantages/disadvantages of multis versus monos (although I suppose that with your obvious bias, the fact that someone could even ask the question would imply that they are mulithullers, or at least 'multihull sympathizers' and hence deserving of attack).

If nothing else, your posting and your efforts at defending it prove my primary point: that this is a tired debate that is going nowhere.

Brad
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Old 14-05-2009, 07:41   #30
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Seems to me that there are a small number of multihull owners on here who periodically get anxiety attacks and have to reassure themselves they have got the right kind of boat and that it will float.
It's completely unfair to say that without also realizing:

Seems to me that there are a small number of monohull owners on here who periodically get anxiety attacks and have to reassure themselves they have got the right kind of boat and that it will float.
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