Older vs Newer

[Mule]

OK folks, I think I might have a topic. Howcome there is so much talk of older designs that are classics no doubt but just as expensive or more than popular production boats? When cost to bring many of these boats up to standard the cost go up, sometimes to absurd levels.

There are Hunters, Catalinas, and Beneteaus just to name three that can be had with modern sail rigs, up to date in many areas that older boats require updating. From what I can gather many if not all of the production boats are seaworthy, I do not hear of them sinking on a daily basis and there are one hell of a lot of the production boats out there.

So what gives?? Is the attitude I detect purist snobbery or is there some other reason?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Mule

... there are one hell of a lot of the production boats out there.
So what gives?? Is the attitude I detect purist snobbery or is there some other reason?

I think you put your finger on it Mule. Economies of scale & adequate construction in modern production vs the depreciated costs of custom production & premium quality.

[freetime]

Good Point!

Look at the layout on a new 45 f and a old one.... I think a new 38f feels bigger than a older 45 f.
It is like cars, often better economic to buy a newer one than to try to hold a older ones on the roads.
But the price on a old boat can also make a big difference, buy a old one and you can have your boat for ok money.
Then you have the quality question, look at a 20 year old Najad... OK, it need updates but the boat is still (often) very nice.
But i will look for a 2003 or newer....

[captain58sailin]

For me I think it has more to to with nostalgia, I am a sucker for the older designs. Also with a given designer there is a tried and proven track record. With FRP hulls, I like the heavier built hulls of the 1970s, versus the tensile strength of the thinner skinned new vessels. I have read and studied about the new construction techniques and seen some production vessels as they were being constructed. There is something reassuring about having an inch and a half thick fiberglass hull over a 3/8" foam core skin.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

There is something reassuring about having an inch and a half thick fiberglass hull over a 3/8" foam core skin.

Yeah, gonna take me a while to go with the concept of veneered MDF

For me price came into the equation as the sort of boat I wanted is not really made anymore on a production basis. and custom / semi custom not in the price I wanted to pay for only a boat. and I figured on trading time for cash with no immediate heading off plans.

Having said that, their are big plusses to newer as well - as always it is each to their own

[sailorboy1]

I think it comes down a proven boat that stands the test of time. Yes a new is a good deal, but we don't really know what its' condition is going to be in 10-20 years. But the older boat that is syurveyed without any major problems is proven has stood up to sailing and would be expected to continue as such.

[ksmith]

I am really surprised at the restraint. Yes there is some snobbery. However a lot has to do with the boats use. Many of the posters here are serious cruisers which is a whole lot different than say inland waters or even coastal.

Then there are the nuts who prefer a 1957 Chevy to an 2009 anything. I am a walnut I do not like a walk thru transom, wing keel or even a sugar scoop, on the other hand I do like diesel engines, full keel, refrigeration and A/C.

[captain58sailin]

Seems like every vessel I have taken on, I have to go through all of the systems and make sure they are up to snuff regardless of age, and I am definitely in the KISS school of thought. I tend to look at a well built older vessel as a good foundation, and most everything else can be repaired or upgraded. Like the new LED for nav. lights, the low power consumption is amazing, and I expect that eventually I will retrofit the whole vessel with LEDs. With the older vessel you can get into a boat for less up front and then pay as you go for the deferred maintenance, and in the long run it probably adds up to more in the overall cost, but I don't have to shell that money out up front, and by the time I get done with the refit, I am very well versed in all of the vessels systems and can work on them with confidence, I also know where the potential problem areas are and work to eliminate them as I can afford it. I am definitely in the 1957 group. Though I do enjoy refrigeration, and diesel engines.

[freetime]

The pic with 3,5 boats.

From left Bavaria 40 ocean, Hanse 531 and Bruce Roberts 65....and to right under cover Hanse 471.

To compare the Hanse 531 and Bruce Roberts 65 is...in the same pricerange. BR it is like a nautor Swan inside. And the Hanse is modern... You can´t compare these boats in more ways than the price. Wish one do you want to sail to Antarktic??? The BR is 36 ton of long lasting boat.

[jlogan]

Simple to me

Old 37 ft. boat = $50,000
New 37ft. boat = +- $200,000

New sails = $6000
maintenance = cost of materials plus my labor

All other costs are equal roughly (ok, maybe insurance is more on new boat)

bottom line is I can afford to sail and keep the older boat in good condition, can't afford to do that with a newer boat. Most important thing to me is making sure the older boat is in good condition when purchasing. My sailing is daysailing and some overnight, and I am in a hurricane area, so insurance is a yearly struggle.

I also vote for the quality difference between older and newer boats. It probably helps that I find boat work relaxing.

[dergon]

Well I'm certainly no expert. I haven't even had my boat for long enough to know if I made the right decision.

But after spending 2 years looking at 2004 and and newer boats in the 34-36 range which were usually at least 100k I decided to go older. Yeah this 1985 Tartan 35 lacks AC and needs some work, but I figger I can even put 20k over the course of the next few years and still be doing financially better.

That said, I think it was mostly a psychological decision in that spending less money made it easier to pull the trigger on a boat a third the cost of the ones I had been looking at last season.


I'll let you know how it works out

[Mule]

2001 Beneteau 381 Oceanis Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Here is a new boat, 325 hours on the clock. I realize the asking price is $118,000 but turn key, modern Ray electronics, in mast furing, easily insurable and financing is no question. Factor that against older boats and some of the Beneteaus from 36 to 44 that are less than 15 years old, this one is 8 years and no hours to speak of.

Any comments?

[imagine2frolic]

Maybe she was motored in, and out of the slip, but sailed hard for long distances, and put away wet? SURVEY, SURVEY, SURVEY......i2f

[Fishspearit]

Originally Posted by Mule

There are Hunters, Catalinas, and Beneteaus just to name three that can be had....So what gives?? Is the attitude I detect purist snobbery or is there some other reason?

Sure, there's some snobbery and status symbol, just like with cars and houses.
Are you the kind of person who lives in a condo, or one of those houses on a street where every single house looks alike? One of those houses where if you don't look at the street address outside you could accidently walk into any one of your neighbors home because the builder made them identical?
Or are you someone who paints your house a different color from your neighbors, you like the distinctive architecture that stands out from the others on the block, you plant some interesting flowers or hedge rows around your home?
Do you want a boat that's exactly identical to thousands of others out there?
I don't have anything against the benes, hunters, and catalinas, but when I see them out on the water I don't get excited by them, like I do when I see a lot of older, distinctive boats. Is it snobbery to want to be a little unique, and have the only one of so and so boat at the marina instead of one of the 5 (pick your length) Hunters, benes, catalinas?

[Cheechako]

Some of the lighter boats you mention may not be up to the rigors of "round the world" cruising..... then again some lightweight boats would be! I think over built, too heavy designs have become a tradition in the cruising community (except the catamaran people!). I have had them, many of them are dogs in many ways, wet rides, plowing through the swell instead of over etc. But as they age, they continue to get people where they want to go..... and every boat is a compromise. Whatever you have fun in is good. If you are a careful planner and cruiser, then lightweight is great. If you are going to sail the carribean, any of the vessels you mention will do it fine. If you want a forgiving boat, that will bounce off the bottom occassionally when you try to get through that narrow pass at low tide without damage, then the older heavy boat will be best..... BTW, It's been my observation that after about 7-8 years, an old boat is an old boat... most sytems are in poor shape by then, and lack of use can be as bad as common use....