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Old 03-01-2013, 10:34   #31
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Re: Jacklines

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Um, the jackline arrested his lateral movement. If he had not been tethered, I am quite sure he would have been flung from the boom and be in the water. Of course, I haven't tested that theory.
Of course I was being a smart-ass but I truely believe you have a better chance with a harness and tether, as demonstrated in your friends case. 99% of the time I am clipped in in the cockpit and my tether is too short so me to go over there.
I am sure there have been and will continue to be instances where you'd have been better off without one but like the seat belt in my car....I'll take my chances and "buckle up"
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:41   #32
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Re: Jacklines

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Of course I was being a smart-ass but I truely believe you have a better chance with a harness and tether, as demonstrated in your friends case. 99% of the time I am clipped in in the cockpit and my tether is too short so me to go over there.
I am sure there have been and will continue to be instances where you'd have been better off without one but like the seat belt in my car....I'll take my chances and "buckle up"
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I absolutely concur with your logic. Whenever I hear people pleading outlier situations (for jacklines or seatbelts), I just think it's someone who goes into the discussion with confirmation bias.

You've got to go with the odds. And the odds are nearly 100% that a well-designed and used tether/jackline system will keep you attached to the boat. I would guess the odds of that system saving your life in a potential overboard scenario are at least 95%.
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Old 03-01-2013, 13:00   #33
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Re: Jacklines

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So, it appears if your harness line/jackline is short enough and you have a method in place to bring the boat to weather, you may be able to pull yourself back on board sorta like Robin Lee Graham was able to do on his boat. I think he was in the Pacific Ocean at the time.

Also, you must stay in very good physical condition if you are a solo sailor and hope to be able to do this.
But 9 times out of 10, I think the jackline/tether is going to keep you from even going over the side, so you've got to factor that in as well.
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Old 03-01-2013, 13:03   #34
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Re: Jacklines

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But 9 times out of 10, I think the jackline/tether is going to keep you from even going over the side, so you've got to factor that in as well.
Well, that's the answer then, my harness line is too long......... And my jackline has waaay too much play/slack in it for a boat that's only 8' wide. I'm not sure I can get it tightened as much as I need. I'll have to see.

So far I haven't been using a tether in the bay. The hand holds are so close on the boat. But if offshore as in way off, I may start tethering/harnessing up. Maybe I can do some trial tests while anchored in the current next summer at Kiptopeke.
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Old 03-01-2013, 13:14   #35
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Re: Jacklines

Sometimes I feel I use my harness when things are rough out not as much for the physical safety they provide, but for the mental part of it. The harness makes me feel more secure, which is better than the feeling of the need to always be hanging on for dear life. The harness also forces me to move about the boat slower while thinking about what I'm doing more. It forces you to pay attention!

One thing it doesn't really do much for me is make me have more belief that should I go overboard that I have a much greater chance of surviving.
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Old 03-01-2013, 13:32   #36
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Re: Jacklines

Again, tethers from your harness to your TIGHT jack line must be as short as ya can make them and still be able to do your job !! With the stuff available to day to be able to handle your lines for reefing and lowering sails from the cockpit, the reason for going forward in a blow are almost not there anymore!! but short teathers are the only way to go ! the idea is to STAY aboard not be trailing behind or along side !! just my 2 cents
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Old 03-01-2013, 14:00   #37
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Re: Jacklines

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Again, tethers from your harness to your TIGHT jack line must be as short as ya can make them and still be able to do your job !! With the stuff available to day to be able to handle your lines for reefing and lowering sails from the cockpit, the reason for going forward in a blow are almost not there anymore!! but short teathers are the only way to go ! the idea is to STAY aboard not be trailing behind or along side !! just my 2 cents
My main reefs from the mast, my main and jib halyards are also there for raising and lower but so far no real problems. I had a jammed roller furler last year crossing the bay with the wind around 17-19 outta the East which mean larger swell here and it wasn't too difficult going back and forth to the cabin for tools etc while all the while sailing along pretty hard under autopilot. (with the jib flailing away) No tethering at the time.

It's mainly when you're away from the boat thinking back on it ...........and thinking about a proper tethering setup for when it gets really bad out there.
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Old 03-01-2013, 15:04   #38
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If your single handing, at least, they'll find your body when the boat runs aground.
Maybe so ... maybe no:

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Old 03-01-2013, 17:01   #39
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Re: Jacklines

Maybe it is the training I got before sailing, but jacklines should not make one feel more confident. Nor should years of experience be a replacment for jacklines. Jacklines and tethers are a failsafe so that when you make a mistake or when s!!t happens that you live to tell the story. Unless you can walk on the water, provision should be made to keep you on the boat.

Every time I leave the inlet the jackline is rigged. If I am single handing, I am clipped in whenever I leave the cockpit. If this makes me a wuss, I wear the badge bravely. Then again, I have also known guys who have been severely hurt or died on their "day jobs" when they did not use appropriate PPE.

Just my humble opinion

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Old 03-01-2013, 17:42   #40
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Re: Jacklines

I love these threads. 38 replies, and not ONE of these answered the OP's question. Doesn't that make anyone feel funny, responses based upon nothing more than opinion, when he specifically asked about actual expereince?

Yes, I have. 6 knots boat speed and 10 knot winds. I would not give any general rules, as there are so many variables.
* Very physical. I could reach a spin sheet, with that lever up to where I could reach the toe rail, and the rest was easy. I can also do 20 pull-ups.
* In rough conditions you will need some helpful factor; heeling, low freeboard, fear, something hanging down.
* You can get hurt during real world MOB drills. Never have, but if there are waves it can happen.

Tie to autopilot? I don't understand how that works on a trip to the bow. In the cockpit, just tie off very short. Deadman switches are for run-abouts.

Other than crawling, tight lines and 2-length tethers (you can allways go shorter than the standard 3 and 6 feet), the only thing that makes sense to me is a line on each side between the toerail and water. Simple. It can also be used to clip to, cut away the primary tether, and then slide to the stern where you may reboard (stern ladder). I was testing that aproach to, and it also worked.

Would getting stuck suck? Yes. So would falling in cold water in the winter solo with a PFD. Just as dead. A tether should keep you on the boat. It should also make you think about what you're doing.
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Old 03-01-2013, 19:39   #41
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Re: Jacklines

Jack lines, clipped in short, crawl a lot.

My water is damn cols and I'm alone. Too much time to think about such things to not be careful.
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Old 03-01-2013, 20:02   #42
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Re: Jacklines

The statistics show that most people fall overboard when they least expect to, so the jacklines and harnesses are all a good idea but chances are very good that if you are thinking that hard about it you won't fall off. The really dangerous time is when you pop up to see if the anchor is holding at night, stub your toe, hop on the other foot, and get tripped up by the lifelines falling over backwards whereupon you hit your head on the windsurfer floating alongside and die. The drinks you had with dinner didn't help either. Seriously, that is the more likely man overboard scenario. Someone was found floating dead in the morning in the marina near where I keep my boat on a mooring. Nobody saw or heard anything. Local conjecture is he had been drinking and got up in the middle of the night to relieve himself, slipped on something, fell in and hit his head, and drowned.

The reason nobody is answering the OP is almost nobody falls in offshore while tethered to a jackline and lives to tell about it!
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Old 03-01-2013, 20:13   #43
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Re: Jacklines

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I love these threads. 38 replies, and not ONE of these answered the OP's question. Doesn't that make anyone feel funny, responses based upon nothing more than opinion, when he specifically asked about actual expereince?
You are on an internet forum.....you are surprised by people giving opinions, sharing stories and feelings very much related to the topic...nope don't feel funny at all, quite typical in a public DISCUSSION forum and the TOPIC is JACKLINES.

I did state an opinion sure but it was a very eduated opinion based on what I have read and have heard or seen by others. I have even discussed this very subject with OP face to face. So I felt like I could a my view on the topic as I want my friend to be safe while out sailing. Does this mean I should have had the actual experience of being dragged by my boat even though he asked for actual experience maybe, maybe not but since I was on a DISCUSSION forum and the Title of the thread is JACKLINES....I added my $.02....shocking.

Stating you can do 20 pull ups is relevant to the op question...how? Do you feel funny for posting that? Yet someone else make a revelant comment to the topic statement and they should feel FUNNY.....pot, hi I'm kettle, have we met?

Why doesn't snuemans' story of seeing his friend being saved by a jackline qualify as actual experience, because he did actually have to pull himself back onboard? I believe snuemans experience to be very relavent to the title of the thread JACKLINES and to the OP questions, by stating an actual experience of how a jackline kept his friend from having to try to pull himself back aboard a vessel in rough conditions. who knows maybe someone else beside the OP will read this thread and the replys.....that may just be possible.......
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Old 03-01-2013, 20:30   #44
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Re: Jacklines

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You are on an internet forum.....you are surprised by people giving opinions, sharing stories and feelings very much related to the topic...nope don't feel funny at all, quite typical in a public DISCUSSION forum and the TOPIC is JACKLINES.

I did state an opinion sure but it was a very eduated opinion based on what I have read and have heard or seen by others. I have even discussed this very subject with OP face to face. So I felt like I could a my view on the topic as I want my friend to be safe while out sailing. Does this mean I should have had the actual experience of being dragged by my boat even though he asked for actual experience maybe, maybe not but since I was on a DISCUSSION forum and the Title of the thread is JACKLINES....I added my $.02....shocking.

Stating you can do 20 pull ups is relevant to the op question...how? Do you feel funny for posting that? Yet someone else make a revelant comment to the topic statement and they should feel FUNNY.....pot, hi I'm kettle, have we met?

Why doesn't snuemans' story of seeing his friend being saved by a jackline qualify as actual experience, because he did actually have to pull himself back onboard? I believe snuemans experience to be very relavent to the title of the thread JACKLINES and to the OP questions, by stating an actual experience of how a jackline kept his friend from having to try to pull himself back aboard a vessel in rough conditions. who knows maybe someone else beside the OP will read this thread and the replys.....that may just be possible.......

Sorry, but pull up your bigboy pants. It's just dialog.

Pull-up count? Information offered as confirmation that I am more fit in that one sense than many sailors and dirrectly relevent to the preceding sentense. I did not want an overwieght couch potato to mistakenly believe it was something easily done or that I could do it if injured. It was not bragging. I'm a terrible runner, have no grip strength and a bad back; just strong lats.

I stand behind my comment, with the exception of the post you describe above. Every jackline thread conains the same discussion; worthwhile, but exhausted. He asked something different. My comment was really an invitation for sailor to perform drills rather than go by what they have read or heard.
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Old 03-01-2013, 20:59   #45
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Re: Jacklines

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Sorry, but pull up your bigboy pants. It's just dialog.

Pull-up count? Information offered as confirmation that I am more fit in that one sense than many sailors.
so you made a statement not relevant to the OP question but yours was relevent

More fit than most sailors, wow....is based on speculation, judgement or fact? how would you know this? There are some ole salts that will suprise you my friend, as wise as you try to come off, I surely would have thought you would have heard the old saying...never judge a book by it cover.

My experience on trying to get back aboard goes like this. 2 yrs ago I was anchor at Kiptopeke and went in for a swim....could get back aboard without wifes help, pretty good current through there 3-4 kts at times...I was embarrassed as my wife(triathlete) did this almost effortlessly. So i decided to do something about that....almost 2 years later should be able to no problem, this is speculation of course because I have not tried. Over the past 2 yrs I have hit the gym, ran every day I was in Afghanistan in +100 temps and completed a 12mile Tough mudder in NJ this past Oct.....I know good for me...who cares. By looking at me you would probably put me in the catagory as most sailors.....maybe you could define most sailors.

Simple fact is you are safer with a tether, harness and jackline, just as you are with a seat belt. That is just as relevant as stating you can do 20 pull ups and my sad story above. I hope I never have to prove you or me wrong and that I stay in the boat.
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