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Old 03-03-2016, 14:35   #316
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
Polux,

Aesthetics aside, I base some of my preferences on the opinions of the marine pros with many decades of extensive experience, etc. One is currently a maintenance manager for a sailing club with a large inventory, about 100 boats, a good portion of them new or newish Bavarias, Hanses, Beneteaus etc and many older Hunters, Beneteaus, Catalinas and Odays. That particular gentleman says that for every issue on an older boat there are 2-3 or more issues on the practically new one. Granted, some of them relate to the latest generation diesels which loaded with electronics tend to suffer more as a result but the vast majority of issues according to him stem from either poor design or poor execution. On a design side for example he cites a 6 or 9 gal holding tank on a 42 ft new Hanse. My reaction of course was - "what's the big deal to install 20-25gal tank?" He said - can't do, without major structural modification to the bulkheads, etc. He says there is just no room there for anything larger than 9 gal. You tell me how in today's ecologically conscious times a 42ft boat leaves EU factory with a 6-9gal holding tank which cannot be easily expanded.

Also maintain a charter fleet full of euro boats; couldn't agree more with your friend. In fact, just recently ran into the same holding tank problem again. Fleet owner is pissed because charterers keep calling in to say "head is plugged" when really holding tank is full when it left empty for a two day charter (occasionally a one day beer cruise). Wants to upgrade tank size; not an option on these boats. This is because until very recently most euro countries had less regulations about dumping holding tanks over the side than here in the US.
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Old 03-03-2016, 15:11   #317
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
On a design side for example he cites a 6 or 9 gal holding tank on a 42 ft new Hanse. My reaction of course was - "what's the big deal to install 20-25gal tank?" He said - can't do, without major structural modification to the bulkheads, etc. He says there is just no room there for anything larger than 9 gal. You tell me how in today's ecologically conscious times a 42ft boat leaves EU factory with a 6-9gal holding tank which cannot be easily expanded.
So the Hanse is built with crossing oceans in mind where you are not expected to store all you waste on board for extended periods, whilst IP's can stick close to the coast and visit pump out stations occasionally
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Old 03-03-2016, 18:05   #318
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

I drove by Island Packet's plant today and took a few photos. There is some activity there, although it was tough to know if there was a normal staff complement (there were only a few vehicles in the lot), and what exactly they were doing. I tried asking, but was told 'no comment'. I also asked the business next door if they knew anything, and they didn't, either way.

So, here are a few pictures. The one take away I had was how small the plant was, the second was that the two boats they were working on were obviously of the larger variety. There is no way that plant could ever have produced a volume product... it's facility was just too small.

I do hope that not only they continue to operate, but that they do well.

So, here are the pictures. Draw no conclusions, as I couldn't. Was the truck taking the boats to be commissioned elsewhere or be finished? Or maybe they are operating, maybe they are shutting down, and maybe they are just finishing the two yachts pictured. Again when I tried phoning, I just got a busy signal.

I wish them, I wish the employees, and I wish those that have yachts on order well.





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Old 03-03-2016, 18:30   #319
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Thanks for doing that avb3!
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Old 03-03-2016, 18:40   #320
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
Polux,

Aesthetics aside, I base some of my preferences on the opinions of the marine pros with many decades of extensive experience, etc. One is currently a maintenance manager for a sailing club with a large inventory, about 100 boats, a good portion of them new or newish Bavarias, Hanses, Beneteaus etc and many older Hunters, Beneteaus, Catalinas and Odays. That particular gentleman says that for every issue on an older boat there are 2-3 or more issues on the practically new one. Granted, some of them relate to the latest generation diesels which loaded with electronics tend to suffer more as a result but the vast majority of issues according to him stem from either poor design or poor execution. On a design side for example he cites a 6 or 9 gal holding tank on a 42 ft new Hanse. My reaction of course was - "what's the big deal to install 20-25gal tank?" He said - can't do, without major structural modification to the bulkheads, etc. He says there is just no room there for anything larger than 9 gal. You tell me how in today's ecologically conscious times a 42ft boat leaves EU factory with a 6-9gal holding tank which cannot be easily expanded.
Now is you that are misinterpreting me. I was not saying that mass production main market boats are better than old boats.

What I was saying is that the vast majority of sailors prefer them, finding them more desirable than old boats and that is why you can see them on the charter fleets (and not old boats) and why on the ARC , with about 200 boats, almost all are new boats and curiously there, are the old boats that have more problems, with one sinking on the last edition.

Regarding preferring an old recovered boat and an old design to a modern one, there are tastes for both and I would not tell anybody what to chose, respecting their preferences, even if almost all chose a modern design, out of this forum, I mean.
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Old 03-03-2016, 19:06   #321
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
I drove by Island Packet's plant today and took a few photos. There is some activity there, although it was tough to know if there was a normal staff complement (there were only a few vehicles in the lot), and what exactly they were doing. I tried asking, but was told 'no comment'. I also asked the business next door if they knew anything, and they didn't, either way.



So, here are a few pictures. The one take away I had was how small the plant was, the second was that the two boats they were working on were obviously of the larger variety. There is no way that plant could ever have produced a volume product... it's facility was just too small.



I do hope that not only they continue to operate, but that they do well.



So, here are the pictures. Draw no conclusions, as I couldn't. Was the truck taking the boats to be commissioned elsewhere or be finished? Or maybe they are operating, maybe they are shutting down, and maybe they are just finishing the two yachts pictured. Again when I tried phoning, I just got a busy signal.



I wish them, I wish the employees, and I wish those that have yachts on order well.












That's a Seaward 46 I think, not an IP. Makes sense given their merger.


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Old 03-03-2016, 19:56   #322
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

avb,

You missed the main assy area. Drove by it on the left going in. The area in your pictures is office area and some of the layup bays and final shipping. Facility across the street probably 2 or 3 times the production area in your pictures.

Been 10 years since I was there, but back then a beehive of activity.

Often wondered what they do with the old tooling. Suppose it ends up in the landfill when a new model comes on line.
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Old 03-03-2016, 20:30   #323
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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avb,

You missed the main assy area. Drove by it on the left going in. The area in your pictures is office area and some of the layup bays and final shipping. Facility across the street probably 2 or 3 times the production area in your pictures.

Been 10 years since I was there, but back then a beehive of activity.

Often wondered what they do with the old tooling. Suppose it ends up in the landfill when a new model comes on line.
Not sure if I missed anything. The red is where I took the pictures from, the yellow is the side of the building I drove up to see if there was another area. None was apparent, as you can see here. Is the Military museum perhaps the area you are thinking of?

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Old 03-03-2016, 21:04   #324
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Back towards Ulmerton Rd and across the street. Two buildings, one the assy area and a big woodworking shop in the other if my memory is correct.
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Old 03-03-2016, 21:31   #325
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Back towards Ulmerton Rd and across the street. Two buildings, one the assy area and a big woodworking shop in the other if my memory is correct.
OK, I see what you mean. I seem to remember that building being not being active and the gates closed. There was no signage I could see on it. Again, no one should read anything into my observations other than what I saw. Some activity is occurring but no one I talked to knew the situation or would talk. You know rumors will continue until one hears officially from company representatives.
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Old 04-03-2016, 09:40   #326
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Now is you that are misinterpreting me. I was not saying that mass production main market boats are better than old boats.

What I was saying is that the vast majority of sailors prefer them, finding them more desirable than old boats and that is why you can see them on the charter fleets (and not old boats) and why on the ARC , with about 200 boats, almost all are new boats and curiously there, are the old boats that have more problems, with one sinking on the last edition.

Regarding preferring an old recovered boat and an old design to a modern one, there are tastes for both and I would not tell anybody what to chose, respecting their preferences, even if almost all chose a modern design, out of this forum, I mean.
You won't find old cars in the car rental fleets either. Has nothing to do with quality or features. Rental customers want newer, flashier units. The rental companies shop around for the best discounts from the manufacturers and then run those for the time period of the contract. Then reshop for new discounts, etc. So Hertz will have Chevies one year and Dodges another. But they also take on very few of the most expensive cars as most customers will not pay a really high differential. It's economics not a so much a quality issue. Charterers rent their boats a few years, often paid for with owners who put them in the charter fleet and take them back later, then get new ones again. And cheap flash sells. And, as noted, these customers are not taking the boats across oceans, or even across open seas for more than a day or so. And they break a lot.
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Old 04-03-2016, 09:50   #327
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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OK, I see what you mean. I seem to remember that building being not being active and the gates closed. There was no signage I could see on it. Again, no one should read anything into my observations other than what I saw. Some activity is occurring but no one I talked to knew the situation or would talk. You know rumors will continue until one hears officially from company representatives.
The main part of the plant is down the road and across the street, but when I was there last Summer, gates were locked and not much going on there.
Boat on the flat bed is a Seaward I believe and not an IP, I think it is there for a refit.

I don't think IP is or ever was a high volume production facility, the tooling and practices I saw when I was there did not lend themselves to that. They were it seemed individually, hand built boats. All glass I think for example was hand laid and no chopper gun etc., that some use to speed production.
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Old 04-03-2016, 09:56   #328
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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So the Hanse is built with crossing oceans in mind where you are not expected to store all you waste on board for extended periods, whilst IP's can stick close to the coast and visit pump out stations occasionally
I don't think I'd want to take that 42' Hanse further than that sailing club would allow.
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Old 04-03-2016, 10:08   #329
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Now is you that are misinterpreting me. I was not saying that mass production main market boats are better than old boats.

What I was saying is that the vast majority of sailors prefer them, finding them more desirable than old boats and that is why you can see them on the charter fleets (and not old boats) and why on the ARC , with about 200 boats, almost all are new boats and curiously there, are the old boats that have more problems, with one sinking on the last edition.

Regarding preferring an old recovered boat and an old design to a modern one, there are tastes for both and I would not tell anybody what to chose, respecting their preferences, even if almost all chose a modern design, out of this forum, I mean.
I am also not arguing the obvious - that most today's new boat buyers and charterers prefer modern design boats. What I do argue that most (though not all) of these modern boats are ill suited for ocean crossing and circumnavigation or even less serious coastal cruising - wide spaces below, lack of handholds, sharp corners, questionable rudders and keels, lack of proper sea berths, etc, etc. Now I am not arguing that other no less important blue water items such as radars, water makers, gen sets, etc. should be part of the basic equipment (even though they are indispensable for BW travel) but at least the basic boat structure features such as handholds, etc. should be part of the design, even if the boat is to be used as a dock queen. Probably for the same reasons that most car manufacturers include as a basic feature a spare tire or low fuel indicator light even if the car will never be driven outside 1-2 mile radius from the nearest gas station.
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Old 04-03-2016, 11:49   #330
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Re: Island Packet Closing doors

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The main part of the plant is down the road and across the street, but when I was there last Summer, gates were locked and not much going on there.
Boat on the flat bed is a Seaward I believe and not an IP, I think it is there for a refit.

I don't think IP is or ever was a high volume production facility, the tooling and practices I saw when I was there did not lend themselves to that. They were it seemed individually, hand built boats. All glass I think for example was hand laid and no chopper gun etc., that some use to speed production.
There were actually two boats there, the one behind the truck was an IP, and I concur, the blue one a Seaward.

I'd be shocked if any hull of any brand (well, maybe a Searay, but that's a stinkpot) would be built with a chopper gun. Perhaps some interiors might be, but that would shoot the whole theory of using liners as strength all to hell.

Anyone been in the Catalina plant that can comment? It's sort of on my list to do this year.

Update: phone still rings busy or perhaps out of service as of a minute ago.



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