Ferro Cement Hulls ?

[BillAU]

I've seen and helped repair a holed FC 50'er, she hit a submerged rock or something during a storm. That boat was beached after being holed, sold and then repaired by her new owner, she's sailing still out of Darwin as far as I know. She sustained a whack that put a hole right through her hull but she never crumbled and fell apart...As some of the nay-sayers say FC boats will do. So I guess the builder followed instructions during the build.
As the man says...One of the great advantages of a ferroboat hull is....if it was built reasonably well in the first place, almost any damage is repairable...Peter and his boat repair is living proof of that

There is also the FC sloop 'Katrea', a Hartley I believe, she came to a sticky end on a reef but she sat on that reef for three years being hammered by the sea and the weather and...She never broke-up quick-smart as a plastic boat would have done, she lasted, up on a reef, for 3 years or more. You can see pictures of her on this page.
As for resale value, I for one have no intentions of ever selling the FC boat I end-up with, I'll keep it till I'm gone. What becomes of it once my kids get their hands on it...Well, that's up to them.

Bill
Australia

[BillAU]

I forgot to point-out Peter, from this fourm, FC boat, he's repairing her as we read this thread, she was badly damaged but Peter, who is NOT a full-time experenced boat builder, is doing a great job on repairing her. Did I mention she's a FC boat, more than holled but she never broke-up...Peter bought her and is doing the repairs himself

[Auzzee]

Originally Posted by BillAU

She sustained a whack that put a hole right through her hull but she never crumbled and fell apart...As some of the nay-sayers say FC boats will do

I am not a nay-sayer and I have owned two concrete boats. Both Adams design, one a 45' Wimoway, the other a 53' Aquila. Both were great boats and I love the price and low maintenance which come with ferro boats.

As for those who say "they have to we well built", I say that's the case with any medium from ferro to steel, timber etc. But, and it is a reasonably rotund 'but', it is necessary when you own a ferro boat to understand the reality. Blind loyalty to the medium is not prudent. There are examples littering the internet which can back any theory about the strength of concrete depending upon the particular style of barrow you wish to push.

The fact remains that they are more susceptible to catastrophic failure than boats built from contemporary materials. I love concrete boats and will preach the benefits far and wide....but it would be foolish to not also make note of the disadvantages of the medium. They are few, but they are there nontheless and when push comes to shove, rose coloured glasses are not worth a blurt.

The only way to insure the rigidity and flexibility of the hull is to cover the inside, at the build stage, with heavy, woven fibreglass rovings (on mine they were 6mm thick) which are often as thick as a glass only boat....and just as expensive.

I reiterate, I love concrete boats, but I also understand their limitations and urge FC'ologists to seek engineering test data where comparissons between materials can be assessed without emotion.

[BillAU]

G'day Auzzee,

My post on Nay-Sayers was not aimed at you or smuggler, I was just stating the fact, there are some people who rubbish everything "they" take a dislike to, for whatever reason, and quite often, those people have no intimate knowledge on the subject. I have stated earlier on this thread, I'm no expert on FC boats but I have helped with a few repairs, since the 60's, talked with many owners and builders (those builders built back in the 60's, sailed their FC boats around the world and still own their boats, their boats are still not for sale) of FC boats and I read all I can get my hands on, on the subject.
That still does not make me a expert, there are others out there who have built their own FC boats, repaired their own and others FC boats, those are the people I listen to on the subjecct of FC boats.

[smuggler]

Hey Bill,

Never a nay-sayer myself.. just made some observations from very early industry associations with builders (mid 80's )... but at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what hull material people purchase as long as it gets them out on the water to enjoy what sailing really has to offer.. and they get out there safely.

As others have pointed out there are terrible examples of other hull mediums out there.

However, out of interest, I contacted the broker selling the Samson in Guatemala in respect to finding a liferaft service outlet in Central America.. he (Jean-Claude) responded within hours & has been nothing but extremely helpful.. If others in this thread were thinking of that boat.. I have nothing but praise for the broker & am sure that he be a pleasure to deal with..

Cheers
Rodger
Australia

[awab]

dear readers

I have to come back about this story getting on a reef with a ferro cement boat.

I would say getting on a reef from out side of the reef is always a disaster and no hull can handle this right.
A steel hull is probably the best but it depends where you are most of the time you will be to high up on the reef that nobody can take you down anyone. A plastic has no chance at all. It will fall on his side and cut open. The ferro is not taking the bounding very well and will be finished after but it will be the same with the steal. Nobody can get it off the reef if far enough on.
Most of the time short after the natives steal or take anyway everything what is worth something on the boat. This makes it basically worthless.

When you get a ground, inside the reef it is no problem. With some technics you get off sooner or later. The hull material is no problem. It is more the question about your keel design , etc.

I saw a lot of boats getting on reefs in the San Blas and when it happened the weather was so bad that the hull material is been not the real problem. When it happens outside the boat is most likely done. That is the reality. The discussion what is better in a case of disaster is not relevant anymore when it comes to this point.

What I want to say in my bad english is that nobody should be afraid to buy a FC hull because his chances after getting on a reef is some points smaller then with a steel hull.

This is wrong thinking.
If I fall out of a plane without parachute it makes no difference anymore I fall with a samsonite or a dufybag.

I am not sure I made my point but hope so.

all the best
peter

[BillAU]

Originally Posted by awab

dear readers

I have to come back about this story getting on a reef with a ferro cement boat.

I would say getting on a reef from out side of the reef is always a disaster and no hull can handle this right.

What I want to say in my bad english is that nobody should be afraid to buy a FC hull because his chances after getting on a reef is some points smaller then with a steel hull.

This is wrong thinking.
If I fall out of a plane without parachute it makes no difference anymore I fall with a samsonite or a dufybag.

I am not sure I made my point but hope so.

all the best
peter

Yes Peter, you have made your point...Very well indeed

Bill
Australia

[awab]

Hello,
Even if there are not so much people anymore in this chamber this is my update.

Just doing my front damage. Welding the nose back on.
On of the most important things in restoring a boat are the tools.
In the beginning I was concerned about the work. Alone in North Carolina. I have been used to the cheap labour in south central America. In the meantime I am not so convinced about cheap labour anymore. I became a believer of having the right tool.
To clean up the bow section and the star-port damage I used a needle scaler. What a wonderful tool if you own a steel or FC hull.
It cleans up the damaged area in no time. No effort.
There are not manny electric needle scalers on the market. Most are pneumatic. For this you need a good size compressor. Either way it is worth the money. I bought mine via ebay for not so much and still will be be able to sell after all is repaired again. Probably will not do because tools became friends.
Have some new pics under

Flickr: awabflickr's Photostream

Will post pics from the welding in one of the next days.

Surprisingly getting the right Portland cement was not that easy. I have been in various construction material shops and they had no clue about the different qualities. Today I found the right guy. He made some phone calls and voila. It will need him to get the Portland another week. I will soon go back to Italy for christmas and will start again in spring. So the Portland has to wait.
Anyway things come together and the project is very satisfying.

Hope I will see bill still in this group. He keeps everything together in this group in the moment.

all the best
peter

[Mark1977]

Originally Posted by awab

Hello,
Even if there are not so much people anymore in this chamber this is my update.

Just doing my front damage. Welding the nose back on.
On of the most important things in restoring a boat are the tools.
In the beginning I was concerned about the work. Alone in North Carolina. I have been used to the cheap labour in south central America. In the meantime I am not so convinced about cheap labour anymore. I became a believer of having the right tool.
To clean up the bow section and the star-port damage I used a needle scaler. What a wonderful tool if you own a steel or FC hull.
It cleans up the damaged area in no time. No effort.
There are not manny electric needle scalers on the market. Most are pneumatic. For this you need a good size compressor. Either way it is worth the money. I bought mine via ebay for not so much and still will be be able to sell after all is repaired again. Probably will not do because tools became friends.
Have some new pics under

Flickr: awabflickr's Photostream

Will post pics from the welding in one of the next days.

Surprisingly getting the right Portland cement was not that easy. I have been in various construction material shops and they had no clue about the different qualities. Today I found the right guy. He made some phone calls and voila. It will need him to get the Portland another week. I will soon go back to Italy for christmas and will start again in spring. So the Portland has to wait.
Anyway things come together and the project is very satisfying.

Hope I will see bill still in this group. He keeps everything together in this group in the moment.

all the best
peter

Thanks for the update Peter ..... We will stay tuned.

[BillAU]

Originally Posted by awab

Hello,
Even if there are not so much people anymore in this chamber this is my update.

Just doing my front damage. Welding the nose back on.
On of the most important things in restoring a boat are the tools.

You're spot-on about the tools Peter , it's also a big help if you know how to use them...I believe you do mate

Originally Posted by awab

In the beginning I was concerned about the work. Alone in North Carolina. I have been used to the cheap labour in south central America. In the meantime I am not so convinced about cheap labour anymore. I became a believer of having the right tool.
To clean up the bow section and the star-port damage I used a needle scaler. What a wonderful tool if you own a steel or FC hull.
It cleans up the damaged area in no time. No effort.
There are not manny electric needle scalers on the market. Most are pneumatic. For this you need a good size compressor. Either way it is worth the money. I bought mine via ebay for not so much and still will be be able to sell after all is repaired again. Probably will not do because tools became friends.
Have some new pics under

Flickr: awabflickr's Photostream

Will post pics from the welding in one of the next days.

Surprisingly getting the right Portland cement was not that easy. I have been in various construction material shops and they had no clue about the different qualities. Today I found the right guy. He made some phone calls and voila. It will need him to get the Portland another week. I will soon go back to Italy for christmas and will start again in spring. So the Portland has to wait.
Anyway things come together and the project is very satisfying.

I had a look at your pictures Peter, like I said, you have a lot of work in front of you but...You'll get there

Originally Posted by awab

Hope I will see bill still in this group. He keeps everything together in this group in the moment.

all the best
peter

Yes Peter, I'll be here. I do want to see you finish the boat . I know I could not even think of taking on such a large project, I'll leave such projects up to you young blokes And I feel sure, you'll do a great job mate

Hope you have a great Christmas with your family in Italy Peter, then get back, refreshed and ready to get back to work on the yacht.

Bill
Australia

[Steve Bean]

For awab:
I have some experience with Lexan, and I recommend it for hatches. In 1982 I replaced 6 deck hatches on a 61-foot Argentine ketch. I damaged one by trying to drill through the stainless frame; it heated the frame and the expansion caused a crack in the 3/8" Lexan. The captain had insisted that I drill and tap screws into the Lexan in spite of recommendation to the contrary from the manufacturer. Then the captain wanted to test the Lexan, so we installed the damaged hatch on the boat, and the husky skipper jumped up and down on it with both feet as hard as he could; this caused only a little flexing. Then he struck it with the edge of an automobile wheel (steel) several times; only some slight dents resulted. This stuff is very tough. I don't know how tempered glass or acrylic would fare in these tests. My experience with acrylic is that is is not so flexible. I would like to see some testing of the tempered glass before buying it for hatches.

[Yachts66]

My problem with Lexan is the effects of UV light on it. The stuff clouds fairly quickly and becomes opaque. Light passes through fine, but as a port you want to look through, forget it.

I've recently been told you can use toothpaste to polish them and they become clear again, but I've not tried it.

Regards,

Thomas

[clockwork orange]

Thomas is right on re the Lexan clouding, ive done dozens of windows, ports and hatches over the years and have pretty much settled on cast acrylic for most things unless i can use glass.
Polycarbonate (lexan) is easier to drill than acrylic with standard drill bits, it is more ductile so not likely to crack on impact but also makes it not very stiff so if you want to use it for a large hatch lens you may need either thicker material or additional support compared to acrylic, it also clouds fairly quickly, and is more expensive.
Cast acrylic requires specially ground drill bits or else you will blow out the back when drilling, it is a lot stiffer for a given thickness, has better optical clarity but is prone to crazing from uv, it is generally less expensive
Glass has the best optical clarity, is the stiffest but also the most brittle, it can only be used where it can be installed in a perfectly flat plane, its ideal for heavy portlights, pilothouse windows, especially for winshields where you are going to use wipers, it is readily available anywhere, im not sure where it fits pricewise.

Steve.

[clockwork orange]

Oh,ive had better luck buffing out acrylic than polycarbonate, we are just replacing the lexan windows on my sons boat after 25 yrs, they have never leaked and have no cracks but you havnt been able to see out of them for at least 15yrs and the clouding would not buff out with the compound used for headlights, we were repainting so clearly could not put the old windows back.

Steve.

[Auzzee]

Originally Posted by Yachts66

My problem with Lexan is the effects of UV light on it. The stuff clouds fairly quickly and becomes opaque. Light passes through fine, but as a port you want to look through, forget it.

I've recently been told you can use toothpaste to polish them and they become clear again, but I've not tried it.

Regards,

Thomas

Laminated glass is great for hatches! The best way I have found to renew lexan, polycarbonate and perspex, is to use a circular buff (such as is used for cutting and polishing cars). Use Jif or Ajax powder on the surface, keep it very wet, don't allow the paste to dry and buff it with the machine. It will come up like new.