Excessive Weather Helm Even on Reach

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

If the sail is otherwise in good shape, maybe it could just be re-cut ...

Yes, RAku, sometimes that can help. However, if the material is stretched enough to cause the problem, it is likely to continue to stretch after recutting and soon one is back to where you started.

Might be interesting to get Island Planet's take on this if he is around... his advice is usually quite sound IMO.

Cheers,

Jim

[foolishsailor]

Regardless of how much the headsail has blown and the draft has shifted back, the vector of the headsail will still be in front of the CE for the sail-plan.

With a reefed main and full genoa your CE should be forward of optimal causing LEE helm - likely even if the main was over-trimmed.

However you mention weather helm. The only variable left would be the heel angle as others have mentioned.

DO you normally leave a full genny with reefed main? Some boats can carry a full genny with the first reef, some cant.

I would do the following to reduce heel:
1. Ensure traveller is all the way out
2. If you have an adjustable backstay bang it on hard
3. Try either of the extremes on your vang tension - either on hard or really loose to open the leech
4. Most important - if you are unable to reduce heel and correct weather helm using sail controls then you need to reduce sail

edit: I am assuming that halyard tension on your headsail will have little affect on draft position since you describe what you think is blown sail, but increased halyard tension on both main and headsail can help shift CE forward as well.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

Regardless of how much the headsail has blown and the draft has shifted back, the vector of the headsail will still be in front of the CE for the sail-plan.

With a reefed main and full genoa your CE should be forward of optimal causing LEE helm - likely even if the main was over-trimmed.

However you mention weather helm. The only variable left would be the heel angle as others have mentioned.

DO you normally leave a full genny with reefed main? Some boats can carry a full genny with the first reef, some cant.

I would do the following to reduce heel:
1. Ensure traveller is all the way out
2. If you have an adjustable backstay bang it on hard
3. Try either of the extremes on your vang tension - either on hard or really loose to open the leech
4. Most important - if you are unable to reduce heel and correct weather helm using sail controls then you need to reduce sail

edit: I am assuming that halyard tension on your headsail will have little affect on draft position since you describe what you think is blown sail, but increased halyard tension on both main and headsail can help shift CE forward as well.

Which raised an interesting question in my mind -- no one has mentioned the use of a Cunningham to help harden up the mainsail ...

[foolishsailor]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Which raised an interesting question in my mind -- no one has mentioned the use of a Cunningham to help harden up the mainsail ...

Many cruising boats dont have a cunningham so increasing halyard tension is used instead. Both tools in effect tighten the luff.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

Many cruising boats dont have a cunningham so increasing halyard tension is used instead. Both tools in effect tighten the luff.

Sure, but it's really not hard to add a Cunningham.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Sure, but it's really not hard to add a Cunningham.

I agree, I use it always: it's the same line at the leech that we use for reefing. Just a bowline around the boom, up and through the Cunningham- or reef-grommet and down the other side to the mast winch.

The Cunningham is reef 0 and takes the bag out of the main effectively.

[foolishsailor]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Sure, but it's really not hard to add a Cunningham.

You're dead right. In fact it is not hard to add all the controls that allow a skipper to maximise their ability to efficiently and easily get the best trim from their sails.

But most cruisers couldnt be arsed.

I for one love the sailing part of cruising above all else, and even though actual sailing can be the least of the things one does while cruising i really enjoy having the ability from my cockpit to easily adjust every aspect of sail trim.

I can pass a whole day at sea just sitting in the cockpit looking at the wildlife, clouds, sea and sails and actively trim to the conditions until the sun sets.

Diff strokes diff folks...

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Yes, RAku, sometimes that can help. However, if the material is stretched enough to cause the problem, it is likely to continue to stretch after recutting and soon one is back to where you started.

Might be interesting to get Island Planet's take on this if he is around... his advice is usually quite sound IMO.

Cheers,

Jim

I had another thought about this -- maybe it's a good idea to periodically really harden up the sails, even if that requires steering off course for a while, to encourage those fibers to line up properly again? You can do this with lighter weight, more simply woven fabrics (I'm not talking about marine fabrics here). Eventually a sail is going to wear out, the sail will sag, and it has to be replaced, but maybe that time could be extended by getting at least some of the bias out sometimes? Maybe on extended cruising it's just not worth it ...