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Old 01-02-2012, 15:22   #46
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Re: Eliminating Boats with Liners - Advice

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Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
Great comments and educational; but I've come to expect that from CF users

I ran across this article today about hull/deck marriage, which has some relevancy to this discussion. A good read.
Regarding the hull/deck joint, I think Amel may have the best solution:

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I like how Amel does their hull and deck joint. The hull is solid fiberglass of bi-axial cloth layers including the skeg and stub keel. The deck is cored with Balsatek. To join these, they place the deck on the hull while the hull is still in the mold. Then, Amel fiberglasses the hull from the outside and inside to the deck. This procedure eliminates the need for a traditional hull-deck joint. It is one of the features that makes you wonder. In this case, the procedure really adds value here and makes sense. The end result are traditional bulwark style gunwales without any mechanical fasteners or 5200. An Amel is really one piece.
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Old 01-02-2012, 16:01   #47
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Re: Eliminating Boats with Liners - Advice

"From a structural stand point a liner that is bonded to the hull will make the hull stronger at the locations where the bonding occurs. The amount of improvement will depend on the thickness and depth of the liner in those areas, the quality of the bonding."
True, unfortunately, many of the newer boats thinking is that then you can make the hull thinner. I'm not convinced that is better due to puncture resistance and stress cracking issues. A conventional boat with bulkheads, furniture and dividers in the settes tabbed in etc really is like a liner/pan boat.. except you really know that the multitude of stiffeners are attached to the hull. This is impossible with some parts of a liner/pan... as you cant see or reach in there... Still, I dont really have a "wouldnt buy" thought about liner built boats.... But for cruising there are so many non liner built boats out there.....
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Old 01-02-2012, 17:12   #48
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Our Beneteau 411 was hit by a whale 55 miles off Cape Ann. The impact spun the vessel nearly 90 degrees. More importantly after the impact the bilge started to accumulate water. Only then did I realize that I could not inspect the hull's integrity because of the liner. However the taste test indicated fresh water. To make a long story short, the starboard water tank was leaking PLUS the liner tab point were no longer attached to the hull. The repair cost a lot of money but at the end of the day we had a much stiffer boat owing to adding SS reinforcement to the box frame.
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Old 01-02-2012, 18:31   #49
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Re: Eliminating Boats with Liners - Advice

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Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
I saw that yesterday on Wavetrain (Charlie`s blog).

Most boats of any size have the inward flange with either an aluminum or teak toerail on top.
Yup, that's the one. I actually followed the links, and it goes through the whole boat building process of various methods. Very educational.
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Old 01-02-2012, 18:46   #50
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Re: Eliminating Boats with Liners - Advice

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Originally Posted by sogin View Post
Our Beneteau 411 was hit by a whale 55 miles off Cape Ann. The impact spun the vessel nearly 90 degrees. More importantly after the impact the bilge started to accumulate water. Only then did I realize that I could not inspect the hull's integrity because of the liner. However the taste test indicated fresh water. To make a long story short, the starboard water tank was leaking PLUS the liner tab point were no longer attached to the hull. The repair cost a lot of money but at the end of the day we had a much stiffer boat owing to adding SS reinforcement to the box frame.
Holy smokes, glad if was fresh water leak and everyone is ok. Any indication why it hit you? Did it charge? Or did you guys surprise each other?

Cheers,
E
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Old 01-02-2012, 19:32   #51
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Re: Eliminating boats with liners - advice

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I have a Beneteau 432 1987
It has a liner and plenty of access and no problem running hoses or rewiring.
If you prefer not to have a lined boat, that is your choice. Good luck with whatever boat you buy.
Happy sailing.
After reading this thread, I would have to say my Beneteau has a pan system not a liner.
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Old 02-02-2012, 03:42   #52
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Holy smokes, glad if was fresh water leak and everyone is ok. Any indication why it hit you? Did it charge? Or did you guys surprise each other?

Cheers,
E
The whale charged us and when he hit the impact flooded the cockpit. No significant injuries but the six of us were knocked off our feet. Happened in 2001 around 5 pm during calm wind conditions. We were motoring at the time on our way to Maine and we had no idea that a whale was in the area.
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Old 11-02-2012, 05:52   #53
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Re: Eliminating Boats with Liners - Advice

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Wauquiez, Passport, Valiant, Hans Christian, Tayana, Lord nelson, CT, Formosa, Westsail, Cape George, older Swan & Hallberg Rassy are a few without liners. They may have small areas like shower pans that could be called a liner. I think there are many more but not sure. Full/ near full liners make production easy. What you dont know and cant see well is how well the liner fits the hull. You also have to have faith that the "glue" used to attach them will act as advertised. It is awfully tough stuff...
Sabre also does not use a liner/pan extending throughout the hull.
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Old 11-02-2012, 05:57   #54
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The proof of the pudding is in the eating, liner or pan based boats are not falling apart. This debate is like ladder chassis over monocoque cars/trucks. Or bus sides that are now regularly glued on rather then fastners. The engineering has moved on.

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Old 11-02-2012, 11:08   #55
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Re: Eliminating Boats with Liners - Advice

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Sabre also does not use a liner/pan extending throughout the hull.
Wow, that's an impressive set of floors! That's a Sabre?
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:28   #56
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Re: Eliminating Boats with Liners - Advice

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Wow, that's an impressive set of floors! That's a Sabre?
It is a Sabre 426 Mark II under construction - Feb 2012.
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:01   #57
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Re: Eliminating Boats with Liners - Advice

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
The proof of the pudding is in the eating, liner or pan based boats are not falling apart. This debate is like ladder chassis over monocoque cars/trucks. Or bus sides that are now regularly glued on rather then fastners. The engineering has moved on.

Dave

And the framed automobiles were better automobiles for those who worked on them. My brothers 46' hunter lost hull integrity from one grounding where the tide ebbed enough where it laid on its side. After that episode it creaks terribly anchored in a small chop. The woodwork has gaps around the sole that you can fit your fingers in. an inferior construction method to stick built implemented as a cost cutting measure.
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Old 11-02-2012, 13:55   #58
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Re: Eliminating Boats with Liners - Advice

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And the framed automobiles were better automobiles for those who worked on them. My brothers 46' hunter lost hull integrity from one grounding where the tide ebbed enough where it laid on its side. After that episode it creaks terribly anchored in a small chop. The woodwork has gaps around the sole that you can fit your fingers in. an inferior construction method to stick built implemented as a cost cutting measure.

ah yes Hunters, well the less said the better......
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