Dufour

[safariKY]

When recently looking at charter fleets, one of the managers on base steered me toward Dufour. We have chartered Bennies and Jeaneau, but never stepped foot on Dufour. Anyone have any experience comparing the three? Resale value? Thanks in advance for any hep/comments.

[neilpride]

For me is a steep fwd in quality v bene and jeaneau.. the old ones are put together really well.

[Lizzy Belle]

Are you asking about any & all Bene / Jeans vs any and all Dufours?
Or some sort of time frame in which they were build / certain models?

Are you looking to charter or buy (that would make a difference to me anyway ).

[Sailor Jer]

Dufours are like the Mercury or Buick of French Boats

Wauquiez are the Cadillacs/Lincoln and bendy toes are the Chevys/Fords IMO...

Older Michael Dufour boats feature a lot of African mahogany...have a lotta cool features as well

Take a look at an Arpege, second boat he drew/produced and first racer/cruiser-no vee birth but a true fo'castle.
The saloon settee seats lifts up to the pilot births to make double births. Under the removable settee seats are horizontal suit/dress lockers.
Has a nav station that rivals many true yachts (40 plus footers') nav stations.

Sadly they are boats built using hull liner method/modular built so it's hard to get at the hull (leaks) because it's blocked by inner hull liner.

Arpege hull #1 was repurchased and restored by Dufour, it sits in front the headquarters in La Rochelle FRA.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by neilpride

For me is a steep fwd in quality v bene and jeaneau.. the old ones are put together really well.

Yes you are right regarding older Dufours but from some years now they went down with prices and they are now built basically the same way Beneteaus and Jeanneaus with a similar structural and hull system (contre moule).

The performance series has cored hull sides for more rigidity and have a bit better built.

I had the impression that Dufours have a bit better quality but a yacht charter operator that runs them with other mass production boats says they give more problems than Beneteau or Jeanneau.

Regarding the OP question I would say that if he wants to try something different, forget about Dufour and look at the new Dehler 42, that one with a better built (materials and techniques). I have heard they are selling incredibly well and that there is a considerable waiting list already. Try to find one of those for charter but expect an higher price on the boat charter (there are no miracles).

[barnakiel]

Basically we are talking Bene Bav Hanse Jeann *-like generic plastic fantastic. Act accordingly.

They should be decent resale value if you buy them cheap enough - they are quite common here (EU side of the pond).

b.

[rkjbnz]

We looked at the new Dufour 460 and 500. Nice boats if you are after a plastic fantastic/weekend warrior. The interior is a little strange and the fancy photos on the website look better than actually stepping aboard one. We ended up going for a late model Hanse 445. I love it, it's certainly not the old school type they like in this forum but I'm still impressed. The rudder is huge and the Jefa steering is so light. Giant oversize keel bolts and the bulk heads are glassed to hull and deck. Watertight forward locker and anchor locker, but the big thing for me was all lines lead to the helm so no ropes on the coach roof or cockpit getting in the way of people.

I never leave the helm super easy to control by yourself. Hanses are just really tidy easy boats to sail. I've heard of heaps going offshore. NZ has some shocking weather and they are super popular here.


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[Polux]

Originally Posted by rkjbnz

We looked at the new Dufour 460 and 500. Nice boats if you are after a plastic fantastic/weekend warrior. The interior is a little strange and the fancy photos on the website look better than actually stepping aboard one. We ended up going for a late model Hanse 445. I love it, it's certainly not the old school type they like in this forum but I'm still impressed. The rudder is huge and the Jefa steering is so light. Giant oversize keel bolts and the bulk heads are glassed to hull and deck. Watertight forward locker and anchor locker, but the big thing for me was all lines lead to the helm so no ropes on the coach roof or cockpit getting in the way of people.

I never leave the helm super easy to control by yourself. Hanses are just really tidy easy boats to sail. I've heard of heaps going offshore. NZ has some shocking weather and they are super popular here.
..

All bulkheads are bonded to the hull except the main one that I think is bonded and laminated, laminated for sure.
http://www.windcrafthanse.com/suppor...e-445-spec.pdf

Hanse are not better neither worse then other boats of similar price, depending on your personal preferences and on the particular boat. They used to have an option for an all epoxy hull and that was an advantage, that you can still find on used boats, bot not available anymore.

Regarding Dufour, Beneteau and Jeanneau they have a possible advantage, that will come more handy when the boat is old, regarding not using an integral matrix to support the keel and shroud efforts (more difficult to repair). Hanse, like Bavaria use a smaller grid bonded or bonded and laminated to the hull.

Like those three mentioned brands they use single skin on the hull but contrary to them they don't use a contre molded inside skin to increase rigidity. Hanse only use cored hulls (to increase rigidity) on bigger yachts.

In what regards hull building Bavaria offers the better (and more expensive solution) with cored hulls above waterline and solid laminate below, with kevlar inserts on the bow area.

[rkjbnz]

We heard about the Bavaria build it sounded comprehensive. We also enquired about the Delphia 47, which seemed to have an interesting build but they didn't have one in NZ to actually have a look at.

Like you say they are all extremely similar and around the same price. Hanse just won us over by not having lines around the companion way.

I test sailed a Beneteau and a Jeanneau. Beneteau steering was very heavy compared to my Hanse. The Jeanneau creaked and squeaked like crazy.

I never sailed the Dufour 500 but stepping aboard just didn't feel right.

At the end of the day none of them are better or worse it's what you like bro!

Rich


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[Polux]

Originally Posted by rkjbnz

We heard about the Bavaria build it sounded comprehensive. We also enquired about the Delphia 47, which seemed to have an interesting build but they didn't have one in NZ to actually have a look at.

Like you say they are all extremely similar and around the same price. Hanse just won us over by not having lines around the companion way.

I test sailed a Beneteau and a Jeanneau. Beneteau steering was very heavy compared to my Hanse. The Jeanneau creaked and squeaked like crazy.

I never sailed the Dufour 500 but stepping aboard just didn't feel right.

At the end of the day none of them are better or worse it's what you like bro!

Rich
...

Yes, even on the same brand all the boats are not the same, for instance the Bavaria 37 sails like a big and is desagreable at the wheel, the 41 and the 46 are nice sailing boat and both are designed by Farr.

At least you tried the boat, most just choose it by the interior. For me the way a boat feel at the wheel is important, others don't care much. As you say, what a person values more on a sailboat varies.

I heard that the Delphia 47 hull flexed a bit but then it would not be the only one among 50ft mass market boats. But that was when the model come out on the market several years ago, maybe they had fixed it.

From the Delphia the boat to buy is the Maxi 1200 (made by them) that is a really good boat at a great price.

[safariKY]

Thanks for all the feedback. We have decided to buy into the charter fleet and have been in discussions with the broker. Considering Beneteau 45 vs. Dufour 46 Grande Large The broker commented Dufour is a better built boat and sails better. Hmmmm. We will be checking both out next month to see which one feels right. Appreciate any feedback.

[keepondancin]

Worked on one about six or seven years ago. I was bothered by the fact the deck to hull connection was adhesive and self tapping screws. The boat was new, around 40'.

[barnakiel]

I have sailed very many of the modern plastic fantastic paper boats and I have not found any major differences in finish nor in performance. Not to say they are all the same for they are not. But they are similar enough to justify buying the one that simply suits your tastes best. Some Dufours may have some sailing edge over some Bavarias, some Bavarias may have some finish edge over some Dufours.

Some boats that 'look alike' do in fact sail better. I can tell this of boats like X-yachts or Arcona. They look like Bavarias but they are more responsive, accelerate sooner and point higher. This style of a boat is probably worth the extra dollar for someone who cares for that extra knot.

A boat is a boat. Get one that fits your dream!

b.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I have sailed very many of the modern plastic fantastic paper boats and I have not found any major differences in finish nor in performance. Not to say they are all the same for they are not. But they are similar enough to justify buying the one that simply suits your tastes best. Some Dufours may have some sailing edge over some Bavarias, some Bavarias may have some finish edge over some Dufours.

Some boats that 'look alike' do in fact sail better. I can tell this of boats like X-yachts or Arcona. They look like Bavarias but they are more responsive, accelerate sooner and point higher. This style of a boat is probably worth the extra dollar for someone who cares for that extra knot.

A boat is a boat. Get one that fits your dream!

b.

Agreeing with most except with you saying that X yachts or Arconas look like Bavarias You have to sharpen your eyesight. My daughter, when she was still a kid, put it in a very simple way: Fat boats (Bavarias and the like). Arconas and X-Yachts are designed like a boat should be if the main function is sailing.

The fat ones compromise a lot in what regards interior volume. This has nothing to do with beam but with finer entries, lesser windage and water plane shape.

Have a look at a Bavaria 41 and a Arcona 410 and see if my kid was not right about fat boats versus elegant boats

[Cheechako]

My friends sailed a Dufour 34 round the world it was a great, strong boat and above most of the other production boats from what I could tell. Not sure today's Dufours are of that type though.