Clipper Marine ?

[clausont]

Ok - now I get to really show my ignorance
In looking for a project sailboat I have come across a number of Clipper Marine sailboats. I am completely unfamiliar with these and have not looked at one in person, nor have I ever heard any one talk about them. The ones that I have seen advertised all had a relatively low price on them and at that seem to sit on the market for quite a while. I assume that "you get what you pay for" applies here.
My question: Does anyone have any experience or know much about the Clipper Marine boats?
Thanks

[never monday]

it was some of Bill Crealocks early work.

[delmarrey]

The company has been out of business since 1978. The CEO ran off with the bank holdings.

Anyway, there is still a lot of them around. There are several versions, but they are all mainly light weight lake boats. They even made a 32' Ketch-trailorable. For more info you can go to the CM web site.

http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/clipper/index.cgi

................................._/)

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha Clausont,
I don't want to offend any Clipper Marine owners but I would avoid them like the plague. When I first started looking at a first boat to buy there was a Clipper Marine 26 advertised for a low price. All my sailing buddies said don't even bother looking at it at any price. I went to look at it anyway. The foredeck flexed, the rigging was lightweight and you could push the sides in with the palm of your hand. I ended up buying a Catalina 22 fin keeler and never regretted it.
Kind Regards,
JohnL

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by SkiprJohn

Aloha Clausont,
I don't want to offend any Clipper Marine owners but I would avoid them like the plague.

Yo John,

I couldn't have said it better.

best, andy

[clausont]

Thanks all - Now I am as educated as I need to be on the Clipper Marine.
I was thinking this might be the case.

[delmarrey]

You guys must have been looking at some old junkers that had been sitting for years allowing rain water to migrate.

ANY BOAT that sits around for years without attention will be in bad shape. The Clippers were just meant to be a trailer sailor for the average income family. Not a brick s**t house to last over 30 years "LIKE THEY HAVE".

The one above I sailed throght out the San Juan Islands without a problem other then the fact it only weighed juts over 1100 lb.

I ended up selling it for $6500 w/o the trailer to a very happy retired bus driver. And I've seen it out on the Sound a couple times since.

So, to generalize and say Cilppers are a plague is only showing ones own ignorance!

Why are there still so many of them out there??????

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha Del,
As I said I didn't want to offend any Clipper owners. Sorry if I offended you. I plead ignorance as you stated. I can only state what my opinion is and it is that I wouldn't own one because of my experience with the one that I looked at. It was in the water and didn't feel right under my feet.
Regards,
JohnL

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by SkiprJohn

Aloha Del,
It was in the water and didn't feel right under my feet.

I can say this for a lot of boats
It breaks my heart to see a boat that has been abandoned and left to rot. 30 years is a long time for a boat especially if it's left uncared for.

[boydk]

AFAIK, being able to press in on the side of a boat and have it move is a function of delamination. Less expensive boats may delaminate over less time then more expensive boats. But any glass boat will delaminate over time if stressed enough, steel and aluminum get corrosion. fwiw I've never owned a clipper marine but I am shopping for a less expensive trailerable boat and clipper is on my list. I will carefully check it for wear and lamination problems. One of the advantages to the CM boats is that (being less expensively made) they don't have extensive liners/interior coats. So, at least in the 27' models you can visually inspect the inside of the hull.

In cars, I would prefer a porsche, but I know if I buy a chevy (or toyota) the inevitable new water pump will come miles later then the german sports cars one and cost half to a quarter as much. For me, right now, that's a lot of days sailing instead of at work making payments. I can wait for the .9 gravity turning as long as I can do .2 gravity turns now.

[Terra Nova]

[quote=boydk]I've never owned a clipper marine but I am shopping for a less expensive trailerable boat and clipper is on my list.

In cars, I would prefer a porsche, but I know if I buy a chevy (or toyota) quote]

Yo Boyd,

the Clipper is in no way considered in the class of a Toyota, even a Chevy. If one must make a comparison, perhaps a Yugo or Geo?

Still, if you have reasonable expectations, as a trailerable it might be OK. I think the Catalinas are much more well made. Their 25's and 27's are quite a lot nicer, and there is an owners' association and great factory support. There is also a ready market when it's time to sell.

best, andy

[delmarrey]

The hull on the 23's up by the bulwark is 1/4" thick. And in the bilge area is 5/8" thick with a 3/8" ply core. It's not delamination that Clipppers have a problem but wet ply cores. The pop-tops are usually the first to get soft.

They tend to get saturated being left out in the weather unattended for years, then rot. One has to check around any and all thru deck fittings and bilge areas for wet cores. I have yet to hear of one with blisters.

Abandoned Clippers are the ones you want to avoid, just like any boat! But the ones that have been used and taken care of are good boats for their size.

Again, they are light weight for towing and use on lakes/inland waters. They were not designed for ocean cruises!!!

I sold mine for 3 times it's original purchase price (1976) because it was in like-new condition......................_/)

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

the Clipper is in no way considered in the class of a Toyota, even a Chevy. If one must make a comparison, perhaps a Yugo or Geo?

Still, if you have reasonable expectations, as a trailerable it might be OK. I think the Catalinas are much more well made. Their 25's and 27's are quite a lot nicer, and there is an owners' association and great factory support. There is also a ready market when it's time to sell.

best, andy

How many 30+ year old Chevys and Toyota's do you see running around compaired to how many were made. There are still hundreds of Clippers out there. How many Yogo's and Geo's are left? Not quite a good comparison!

How many 30 year old Catalina's are out there???? I sure know there are a LOT of Catalina's for sale. Not many of them Clipper owners are trying to get rid of their boats.

Before one starts cutting down Clippers, I'd like to know how much experience they have working on them????? A boat is a boat, and you get what you pay for, if you know boats! ................................_/)

[boydk]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

The hull on the 23's up by the bulwark is 1/4" thick. And in the bilge area is 5/8" thick with a 3/8" ply core. It's not delamination that Clipppers have a problem but wet ply cores. The pop-tops are usually the first to get soft.

Good to know, I hadn't seen this. I have had a couple friends with 27's and that was what I was considering. They probably have boats that were at least covered.

Originally Posted by Andy

I think the Catalinas are much more well made. Their 25's and 27's are quite a lot nicer, and there is an owners' association and great factory support.

Andy, do the catalinas have a swing keel? The trailers that I've seen for these boats are fairly industrial affairs, and set the boat high up in the wind. I'm looking for a sailboat good for a few hardy people and a weekend of camping that I can throw behind a truck (a scout, if anyone remembers what that is) with a 302v8 and run up to anacortes from Seattle in a few hours with. That would enable me to be in the middle of the San Juan Islands exploring, or maybe a peek into the straights of Juan de Fuca quickly and easily. Google Maps

Even Larry Ellison has limited himself to just one world class sailing Yacht, I have to apportion my resources across more then one field of interest. I'm familiar with general aviation where the bonanza owners lift their noses at the cessna guys and the Piper owners would never let their shadows darken the cockpit of a bonanza. Not for me; there are different tools for different jobs and so far mine doesn't entail dinner cruises to impress ppl on Fortune magazines "500 richest" list

If the clippers are truly badly made I appreciate knowing that because it helps me find the particular boat that will meet my needs. But, -my- first boat won't require moorage, a mortgage, or 30k in new truck to move it. -B

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

How many 30+ year old Chevys and Toyota's do you see running around compaired to how many were made. There are still hundreds of Clippers out there. How many Yogo's and Geo's are left? Not quite a good comparison!

How many 30 year old Catalina's are out there???? I sure know there are a LOT of Catalina's for sale. Not many of them Clipper owners are trying to get rid of their boats.

Before one starts cutting down Clippers, I'd like to know how much experience they have working on them????? A boat is a boat, and you get what you pay for, if you know boats!

Yo Del,

sorry you seem to have taken this so personally. My extremely low opinion of Clipper Marine products is not meant as a personal attack on you, but is based on a lifetime of boating experience, thirty years as a boatbuilder, and most of all common sense and a good eye for quality.

As you certainly must be well aware, many of the Clippers have sat around on trailers most of their miserable lives, so comparing them to 30-year-old autos is a desperate move. However as Yugos and Geos have maintained such a poor reputation for lack of quality and longevity, I stand by my comparison.

The Catalinas were made in the thousands (over 6000 27-footers), and have been so popular because of their integrity and inherent quality and value. Fortunately there were not so many Clippers made.

best, andy