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Old 13-10-2019, 09:33   #1
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Choosing between practical and a cozy

My partner and I have been saving up for a bluewater cruising sailboat between about 35 and 44 foot, our first boat. We're trying to keep the price under $100k, preferably even with any repairs and outfitting, although we do have some wiggle room there.

We really love Robert Perry designs, such as the Tayana 37 or Hans Christian 38. The boats in this price range are usually from the 1980s. At this age and price, most of these boats have a screwed in teak deck that needs attention.

We've also been considering Island Packets 37 or 38. They aren't nearly as sexy as the Perry designs, but with the way they are constructed, and the fact that we can afford one of these boats from the mid 90s, it feels like they are going to be much less maintenance.

Here are a couple of the boats we are serious about.

The Union is listed at $69k, which is about $40k less than the IP37, but since the Union has a teak deck, which is in good, but not great condition (we'd prefer to remove them, or replace them with something less maintenance heavy and less hot in the tropics)... some of the electronics on the Union need to be upgraded, and I suspect that there will be more repairs on the Union to get her up to ship shape than the IP... it feels like their price will be closer once we dealt with those issues.

I also have to figure out where on both boats to put solar panels. They both need wind vanes. The Union doesn't have davits, and with the pushpit, I'm not sure they are even possible to install. The pushpit might also complicate a wind vane as well.

While I can say that the Union is probably going to be more maintenance heavy, I don't know to what extent. I keep hearing horror stories of how much work a lot of these older Taiwanese boats can be. We'd rather have more time exploring a new location than dealing with the extra maintenance of a boat with a lot of brightwork and older systems. But, the Union feels more like home than the IP does.

Does anybody have insight into this? Is the Union going to be twice as much maintenance as the IP?

Any ideas how much it would cost to remove the teak decks from the Union 36 (We are on the US west coast, but plan on sailing down to the Caribbean).
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Old 13-10-2019, 10:13   #2
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Re: Choosing between practical and a cozy

I have no experience with either but I do know I've read quite a bit here on CF about chain plates needing replacement on the Island Packets.

If you start to move forward on an IP, be sure those are checked thoroughly as they are glassed in and, I've heard, an expensive repair.
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Old 13-10-2019, 10:33   #3
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Re: Choosing between practical and a cozy

-The HC38 is not a Perry design. Nice boats and very well built. Very heavy and slow in rough chop. If I bought one again I'd want to be sure it has plenty of HP.
-The Union 36 is a poorly built boat, I would avoid it.
-To be pragmatic I would definitely consider the Island Packet. Chainplate issues are not just an IP problem.
-Are there any Baba's or Tashiba's in your size and price range? Very well built boats. $38k
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...an-35-3215616/
-Passport 37's are super nice, but more rare than the P40's for sure.
https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/74316
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...dard%20listing

-If you want to do the Carribean, definitely buy a boat on the East coast. I did. Don't focus on a windvane too much and have davits!
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Old 13-10-2019, 10:39   #4
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Re: Choosing between practical and a cozy

I don't know what kind of background or experience you have but have you considered a more coastal cruising boat. It could save you a bit of cost and just running down the west coast and out to the Caribbean for some cruising I imagine it would do just fine. Just my 2c though
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Old 13-10-2019, 10:54   #5
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Re: Choosing between practical and a cozy

We don't plan on staying in the Caribbean.
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Old 13-10-2019, 11:31   #6
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Re: Choosing between practical and a cozy

Personally I'd be choosing the island packet over a Taiwanese built boat.
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Old 13-10-2019, 11:37   #7
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Re: Choosing between practical and a cozy

Some Island Packets have chainplates embedded in fiberglass. Certainly a candidate for crevice corrosion if water gets in and can't see how it wouldn't. Cost to fix can be high because of the furniture that covers the chainplates. Not just a case of bolting new chain plates on the exterior of the hull. Other than that they are good boats.

I would never think of owning a boat with teak decks. They are heavy, hot in the tropics and expensive to fix when the wood wears down. Worst is screwed down teak as there are more than a thousand penetrations into the underlying fiber glass deck which almost guarantees core rot and a bunch of money to repair.

Have done a lot of miles in a heavy displacement boat and think they are great for long distance cruising but frustrating for coastal or daysailing. Large wetted surface, displacement and limited sail area make them slow under 10k of wind.

Would look at Passport, Jason, Pacific Seacraft, Shannon and others if you want a quality moderate displacement cruising boat.
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Old 13-10-2019, 11:38   #8
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Re: Choosing between practical and a cozy

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Originally Posted by madworld View Post
We don't plan on staying in the Caribbean.
I don't see much in your post to indicate how much experience you have. Quite often people without much experience or knowledge find that their plans fall through.

I'd advise you to get some sailing experience, LOTS of it, then decide about what boat you want and where you will go.

Further, I'd consider skipping the davits and solar arch plan until you sailed in heavy seas with one on.
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Old 13-10-2019, 11:47   #9
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Re: Choosing between practical and a cozy

My Rafiki is similar to your two options. In fact, if these kinds of boats are your focus Id encourage you to look for a Rafiki 37. Not many out there, but well designed, well built. (https://www.sailnet.com/forums/buyin...gh-cracks.html).

We run with a windvane. No davits. For solar I built a bimini and mounted panels on top (instead of sunbrella).
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Old 13-10-2019, 11:55   #10
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Re: Choosing between practical and a cozy

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I don't see much in your post to indicate how much experience you have.
I've sailed all my life, including my time here in the SF Bay. We've both taken classes from OSCS, up to basic keelboat. We are both comfortable sailing, but have not owned a sailboat ourselves.

While davits aren't completely necessary, since we'll have our tinder on deck during crossings, the solar is a serious necessity, since we'll be on the hook while cruising.
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Old 13-10-2019, 12:10   #11
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Re: Choosing between practical and a cozy

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I've sailed all my life, including my time here in the SF Bay. We've both taken classes from OSCS, up to basic keelboat. We are both comfortable sailing, but have not owned a sailboat ourselves.

While davits aren't completely necessary, since we'll have our tinder on deck during crossings, the solar is a serious necessity, since we'll be on the hook while cruising.
Well that sounds great. SF is a wonderful place to learn to sail and gain experience.

I'd only ask you then, why a full keel double ender? (Oh never mind, we've just had that discussion... a few times in fact)

Take Mike OReilly's advice about tender and solar panels. I mount my solar panels on the stern railings (extended) and I use a windvane. We stayed on the hook while cruising, and didn't have an arch. Wouldn't have an arch.
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Old 13-10-2019, 12:14   #12
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Re: Choosing between practical and a cozy

No teak on a boat intended for the tropics! On “recent“ boats it is nearly unavoidable in the cockpit, which is bad enough, but don't compromise on teak sidedecks! Apart from the fastener/water intrusion problems (many teakdecks are just glued on these days) in bright sunshine they are too hot to stand on barefooted, the whole boat heats up.
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Old 13-10-2019, 13:17   #13
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Re: Choosing between practical and a cozy

I'm not married to double enders. We want a sea kindly boat that will take us anywhere, with just as much maintenance that is required to have a comfortable boat to live in. Just large enough to carry what's needed for our cruising lifestyle. These are, of course, highly subjective.

For us comfortable living probably means some brightwork and interior teak. Enough room to entertain up to six, including us, preferably both in the cockpit and the salon area. Although there are few bluewater boats around 40 foot that has the cockpit room for six. A nice galley, since my partner loves to cook and bake (want to encourage that as much as possible). A comfortable main berth.

Solar is more important than davits. A good dodger and bimini. Below deck autopilot and a wind vane. A shower stall isn't a necessity, but we'd prefer it. Engine hours preferably under 1,500, and a model that is common enough to be worked on in a variety of places.
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Old 13-10-2019, 13:49   #14
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Re: Choosing between practical and a cozy

Madworld,

Your phrase "just as much maintenance as required" caught my eyes. Even the Tayana 37 will require annual touch up of varnish, and it is there to be done, toe rail, bumpkin, and that whole blooming cockpit and surrounds.

Friends with one that has spent a lot of time in the tropics are presently removing the teak decks, and it is a long, effortful job. Be warned.

We, too, did not want a boat that requires much exterior maintenance, and out exterior teak is limited to the hatches, and the companionway surrounds. It makes for more time for water explorations, and less for groveling on your knees with sandpaper. Some places you are allowed only to do sanding in the work berth area, which you have to book in advance, and if you use a sander it must have a bag to catch the dust.

About the massy boats with heavy steering, as you get older, you may well find them tiring to steer. However, it is when steering that you are most in tune with the boat. Now, if your good lady wife is smaller and not as physically strong as you, it will be a lot harder for her than for you. I would think a more easily driven vessel might suit, keeps the loads down. After all, on passages, she will be skipper for your period of sleeping, and I always found that time most fun, being in charge, playing around with sail trim, trying to get a little more speed, walking the decks at night, checking on stuff, having a look around... For us, we've always done 6 on 6 off for our watches, at night, somewhat more free form in the daylight hours, but aiming at 6 hrs. minimum for solid sleep at night. It is enough, with a daytime offwatch nap, to keep one in good form, once one adjusts.

About the IP chainplates, one of our CF members, A64pilot, did his and has written about the experience. He used titanium for the replacements. Use the CF Custom Google Search, and you can probably find the thread.

Good luck with your endeavours, and fair winds,

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Old 13-10-2019, 15:23   #15
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Re: Choosing between practical and a cozy

BTW: 35 to 44', thats a huge spread, maybe 1:3
just saying...
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