Centerboards- A maintenance nightmare, or no big deal?

[JulieMac]

Who here has owned, or had experience with a centerboard on a 36+ footer? Would you own another, given the upkeep? Did the centerboard impede your sailing performance much?

What kind of routine, preventative maintenance needs to be done? Are there leakage issues to be addressed? Does it make a difference with warm, salt water versus colder fresh water environment?

Reason I ask, is that one of the local freshwater boats under consideration is a C/B. This boat is a late 80's vintage, and well cared for.

[John Drake]

Hi Julie
It can depend on the build quality of the boat and the previous owners maintenance.
If a good quality boat, like a Wauquiez, then the CB in the keel should be nice and tight, solidly constructed and of little problem at all. The steel used in the cable should be of high quality and the fittings done by a professional. This is something your surveyor should be able to determine.
I was able to let the CB go in fresh water for over 5 years without touching it. Less in salt.
Some people have suggested having a lengthy cable that you can cut a couple of feet off, ever other year (in salt) and re-attach. Others have replaced the steel cable with a high modulus line, such as Dyneema. Be careful to inspect for chaffing.
The thing with most K/CB boats is that they are one of the few designs that can sail well offshore and inshore. And have the shoal draft to get you in and out of more places. Most good K/CB designs (like all the Ted Hood ones) sail perfectly find on the keel alone. Not much use for the CB except going higher to windward and reducing leeward slippage at low speed.
I would not let it deter you from getting a good boat. In your region, you likely haul every winter, so that makes it easy to inspect and maintain, if need be. But, you probably would not even inspect every year, where you are, in fresh water with yearly haulout.
Hope this helps
John

[JulieMac]

Thanks for responding. It's on a S&S designed Tartan, so I'm assuming well designed.

What does the designed do to prevent water from intruding? Are there seals that must be examined? Sorry for the ignorance, having not seen one up close.

[Southcoasting]

Originally Posted by JulieMac

Thanks for responding. It's on a S&S designed Tartan, so I'm assuming well designed.

What does the designed do to prevent water from intruding? Are there seals that must be examined? Sorry for the ignorance, having not seen one up close.

Hi JulieMac,
I own a Tartan 27 Yawl which has a CB. At first I was concerned about the extra maintenance item but it's really not a big deal considering the advantages

Cruising Buzzards Bay is awesome with the CB as I am not as worried when anchoring as I only draw a little over 3 feet...What this means is I have been able to anchor in filled harbors where other boats simply can't come close to...So I had grabbed the unique spots when the filled harbors on traditional deeper keeled boats could not...Also, when going through tight channels it allows me more room...General cruising wasn't as much a concern either opposed to my buddy's 28 footer who draws 6 feet

Performance wise, it allows me to balance the boat in a way that it pretty much sailed itself when the sails are set right and the wind and waves cooperate...I played around with its position many times depending on conditions so the more experience you have, the more you will learn about which is best for the conditions...When close hauled, you put it down all the way so that it sailed closer to the wind (not much)...

Maintenance wise, I lower it and paint it just like the bottom...Last year, I did not paint the trunk as I read and old wooden boat book where they did not paint the trunk, just the centerboard...The thinking was that it was not needed because the board being in it's trunk would make the trunk area caustic enough that marine growth was not possible...It seemed to work fine follow this theory for me last year

I did end up taking the board out last year because I had hit a rock with the board down (stupid me!) and it opened...I glassed, faired, and painted it and then put a thicker stainless pin on which is meant to rotate on so that the rocking side the side of would stop...It worked wonders as we no longer heard the trunk banging against the trunk walls while anchored or sailing...It could have been worse with a regular keel as this reef I went over would probably have destroyed my keel but since it was a CB, it just banged it and it retracted back when going over it...

It's housing/home is considered a trunk and does have a spot which is open to the bilge but on the Tartan, this is glassed in to the trunk with each side having a brass cap which cab be unscrewed in order to reach the pin that it rotates on...

As for how it lowers and how you raise it, it is done from the cockpit through a regular sheet which attaches to a block...inside the wall would be a wheel which this sheet goes around so it kind of works like a pulley...It's very simple stuff that anyone can fix if something goes wrong

I am planning on replacing the stainless wire the board is attached to (which attaches to the pulley) with something more like a synthetic...Reason is I am afraid the wheel will fray the stainless wire when winding and unwinding the the board...I'm thinking of using Dyneema as there seems to be less a chance of the pulley wheel fraying something pliable like Dyneema

What Tartan are you looking at? I am a big fan of them

Many great boats were made in CB...Some of my favorite "next" boats have a CB:
Pearson 35
Tartan 34
Bristol 35.5 (some do)

[JulieMac]

Originally Posted by Southcoasting

What Tartan are you looking at? I am a big fan of them

Late 80's Tartan 40.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by JulieMac

Thanks for responding. It's on a S&S designed Tartan, so I'm assuming well designed.

What does the designed do to prevent water from intruding? Are there seals that must be examined? Sorry for the ignorance, having not seen one up close.

While CF is great, you may want to check the Yahoo Tartan Group. They are a great asset for all things Tartan. Someone there owns one of these boats and can speak from experience on that exact model.

Curious is it a T-37?

Cheers

[John Drake]

Hi Julie

A lot of great information here, not sure if anyone answered this question.

Yes, there is a watertight trunk that the CB is in. It is usually flush with the bilge. On my Wauquiez, there was a large, heavy steel plate that had bolts on nearly 1 inch centers and a gasket to keep it water tight. You would unbolt this piece to access the top of the mechanism, with the boat hauled out.

Not sure how other boats might be.

The Hood 38 (Wauquiez, Little Harbor and Bristol) had a ballasted CB that was also shimmed. So, it would not knock around at all.

Not sure about others, but a S&S is a good brand. You might find information on its build quality in Practical Boat Buying, now a two vol set....well worth it.

The Hood designed boats sailed equally well board up or board down. I rarely used mine. The boat would point 30* apparent without the board. But, board down, when there was plenty of power in the sail plan, it was pretty amazing.

My main goal in getting this boat was the draft, since I knew I would be sailing many shoal areas. And I can tell you, plenty of places in the Keys, marked 7 ft on the charts....are not. 5 ft would have bumped. 4.5 got me over everything.

I would not discount a K/CB boat because of any maintenance issues. If you sail in a shoal area, it could be helpful.

Hope this helps

Best

J

[Tar34]

As in all things designed, there are detractors and adherents to the centerboard. You will just have to decide if the benefits outweigh the additional maintenance. I own a Tartan 34c. I sail in waters where shoal draft is a benefit. The board designed for the Tartan 34c is a significant performance enhancer, principally, partially deployed it reduces weather helm and improves tracking. You may sail in different waters, you may be more cruise oriented as opposed to performance oriented in that trimming for that optimum weatherly course is not high on your list of priorities. The board on my Tartan s tight, doesn't bang around and the lifting mechanism is internal an access is easy. That doesn't mean there might be issues in the future but I am centerboard aware. That is to say I am mindful that its is another tool in my bag of tricks and I treat respectfully with an annual inspection and adjustment. My advice to you. I would not reject the boat solely on the basis of the centerboard. I would, if interested, as with any purchase, during survey do a sea trial. Pay particular attention to the board and associated mechanisms. As part of the negotiation, if any deficiencies be found, have them corrected. By the way, Tartans sail very well with the board up. You may find, as I did, there are many times one will not use it. But it's nice to know it's available.

[Safari38LH]

Center boards don't impede your performance, they enhance it. We have a Little Harbor 38 and sail with the board down most of the time. About the only time we don't is on broad reaches and dead downwind, unless it's blowing. Then the board is down to help control the helm. Maintanence is minimal. Check the pennit every year and the hinge pin. The best part is when anchoring. We draw 4.4 with the board up (9.5 down) and can always find snug places to anchor in.

[JulieMac]

Originally Posted by Safari38LH

Center boards don't impede your performance, they enhance it. We have a Little Harbor 38 and sail with the board down most of the time. About the only time we don't is on broad reaches and dead downwind, unless it's blowing. Then the board is down to help control the helm. Maintanence is minimal. Check the pennit every year and the hinge pin. The best part is when anchoring. We draw 4.4 with the board up (9.5 down) and can always find snug places to anchor in.

Are you finding that while it's up, the boat is not sailing nearly as well as a shoal or standard keel? The shoal keel boat we're looking at only has another 6" on the C/B boat with it's board up. When the board is down, it's another couple of feet.

[JulieMac]

Have you guys noticed that while the board is down, you get some slapping or movement from side to side within the keel structure? If so, is this an adjustment that can be made only during a haul out?

[gah964]

Originally Posted by JulieMac

Have you guys noticed that while the board is down, you get some slapping or movement from side to side within the keel structure? If so, is this an adjustment that can be made only during a haul out?

You may want to wench up on the rope a little when sailing, but I know mine didn't move, and if it was me I would have it inspected by myself.

[Southcoasting]

Originally Posted by JulieMac

Have you guys noticed that while the board is down, you get some slapping or movement from side to side within the keel structure? If so, is this an adjustment that can be made only during a haul out?

Yes, When I first got my boat, I certainly had that issue while down when sailing and up while anchored/moored...It was bothering me...

As I explained though, when I pulled the board out last year for maintenance after I hit some reefs, at the same time I had studied some solutions from other T27 owners from my yahoo group and came up with my own fix for it.

Others had fixed this issue by placing bushings around the pin so that the board rests on these bushings and doesn't swing from side to side...

I wasn't fond of the bushing fix because I could not find an exact size bushing that was not plastic...I wanted more of a permanent fix...Plus my existing pin was due for change as it seemed undersized and was bent...It was an old stainless bolt which the head was cut

So I measured the round opening of the hole that the pin swings on and measured the length of the area the pin rests on. I found this metal supply shop online that had everything...So I ordered a round 316 stainless pin custom cut to custom size width and length from my measurements...

I replaced it in there and no more banging around at all! My concern was that putting a pin which was the exact size of the hole would get stuck in some positions but not quite...I got it just a tad under the hole size and it swings without issues and no banging in any position...I was super stoked!

[ChamJam]

Thanks JulieMac for asking these questions. I am presently looking at a C&C 41 with a C/B. I too know very little about the maintenance issues needed. It seems they need special
attention as any malfunctions could be expensive.

[Paul Mazza]

Owned a Columbia 33 for a number of years. Sailed it to Hawaii and back in the 70's. She was a boat designed around the CCA racing rule and had an aluminum centerboard. Structurally the hull was robust enough to have survived several hard groundings, with no damage to the board or trunk. The only two problems I had were the material. The aluminum had corrosion issues. And the board was designed to lower under it's own weight, instead of being winched down. This meant that it needed extra play and because of that it would wobble a bit and make noise when the boat rolled in an anchorage. With a full keel the boat would have drawn 6 feet, with the board it was 4.5'. In San Francisco Bay and in the Pacific it wasn't much of an advantage. The SS design and Tartan pedigree I'm sure make it much better designed and constructed than my old (1964 Columbia).