Centerboards- A maintenance nightmare, or no big deal?

[roverhi]

The board on the P35 is a very sloppy fit with a quite a bit of room for it to move about, Assume it's that way because it's a gravity drop board and purposely kept loose so little critters and crud from grounding don't lock it up. Going to weather there is very little to notice about the board. Off the wind a bit where the boat rolls more, the board thumps a bit. Usually do not use the board except going to windward. The rest of the time, it's fully up and silent. I like C/B boats cause you have a choice of increased lateral resistance or less wetted surface. With my full keel boat, have plenty of leeward resistance except when going to windward so don't use the board that much.

Others use their boards for trim on various points of sail as there boat and experience is probably different.

[Southcoasting]

Originally Posted by JulieMac

Have you guys noticed that while the board is down, you get some slapping or movement from side to side within the keel structure? If so, is this an adjustment that can be made only during a haul out?

Yes, When I first got my boat, I certainly had that issue while down when sailing and up while anchored/moored...It was bothering me...

As I explained though, when I pulled the board out last year for maintenance after I hit some reefs, at the same time I had studied some solutions from other T27 owners from my yahoo group and came up with my own fix for it.

Others had fixed this issue by placing bushings around the pin so that the board rests on these bushings and doesn't swing from side to side...

I wasn't fond of the bushing fix because I could not find an exact size bushing that was not plastic...I wanted more of a permanent fix...Plus my existing pin was due for change as it seemed undersized and was bent...It was an old stainless bolt which the head was cut

So I measured the round opening of the hole that the pin swings on and measured the length of the area the pin rests on. I found this metal supply shop online that had everything...So I ordered a round 316 stainless pin custom cut to custom size width and length from my measurements...

I replaced it in there and no more banging around at all! My concern was that putting a pin which was the exact size of the hole would get stuck in some positions but not quite...I got it just a tad under the hole size and it swings without issues and no banging in any position...I was super stoked!

[Snore]

Originally Posted by JulieMac

Thanks for responding. It's on a S&S designed Tartan, so I'm assuming well designed.

What does the designed do to prevent water from intruding? Are there seals that must be examined? Sorry for the ignorance, having not seen one up close.

While CF is great, you may want to check the Yahoo Tartan Group. They are a great asset for all things Tartan. Someone there owns one of these boats and can speak from experience on that exact model.

Curious is it a T-37?

Cheers

[John Drake]

Hi Julie

A lot of great information here, not sure if anyone answered this question.

Yes, there is a watertight trunk that the CB is in. It is usually flush with the bilge. On my Wauquiez, there was a large, heavy steel plate that had bolts on nearly 1 inch centers and a gasket to keep it water tight. You would unbolt this piece to access the top of the mechanism, with the boat hauled out.

Not sure how other boats might be.

The Hood 38 (Wauquiez, Little Harbor and Bristol) had a ballasted CB that was also shimmed. So, it would not knock around at all.

Not sure about others, but a S&S is a good brand. You might find information on its build quality in Practical Boat Buying, now a two vol set....well worth it.

The Hood designed boats sailed equally well board up or board down. I rarely used mine. The boat would point 30* apparent without the board. But, board down, when there was plenty of power in the sail plan, it was pretty amazing.

My main goal in getting this boat was the draft, since I knew I would be sailing many shoal areas. And I can tell you, plenty of places in the Keys, marked 7 ft on the charts....are not. 5 ft would have bumped. 4.5 got me over everything.

I would not discount a K/CB boat because of any maintenance issues. If you sail in a shoal area, it could be helpful.

Hope this helps

Best

J

[Tar34]

As in all things designed, there are detractors and adherents to the centerboard. You will just have to decide if the benefits outweigh the additional maintenance. I own a Tartan 34c. I sail in waters where shoal draft is a benefit. The board designed for the Tartan 34c is a significant performance enhancer, principally, partially deployed it reduces weather helm and improves tracking. You may sail in different waters, you may be more cruise oriented as opposed to performance oriented in that trimming for that optimum weatherly course is not high on your list of priorities. The board on my Tartan s tight, doesn't bang around and the lifting mechanism is internal an access is easy. That doesn't mean there might be issues in the future but I am centerboard aware. That is to say I am mindful that its is another tool in my bag of tricks and I treat respectfully with an annual inspection and adjustment. My advice to you. I would not reject the boat solely on the basis of the centerboard. I would, if interested, as with any purchase, during survey do a sea trial. Pay particular attention to the board and associated mechanisms. As part of the negotiation, if any deficiencies be found, have them corrected. By the way, Tartans sail very well with the board up. You may find, as I did, there are many times one will not use it. But it's nice to know it's available.

[deluxe68]

There is a 1980 Alden 44 for sale back east, amazing boat at an amazing price. $115K.

I am in the market for a 40ish blue water live-aboard and have not really considered a CB because of the possible mechanical problems. A quality boat like this is very difficult for me to ignore at that low of a price, it might be worth it even if I replaced the CB with a fixed deep keel (if that is possible). Anyone have experience with one of these boats? They appear, from my limited reading, to be of the very highest quality.

[roverhi]

First, why would you want to go to the extreme expense of changing to a deep keel to a C/B boat??? The board is there for the anal racer to eke every last degree of windward ability out the there boat almost always in short races around buoys. A cruising boat seldom is concerned with extreme weatherliness, in fact, many of us will go out of way not to have to go to weather. Many cruisers with C/B boats never use their centerboard for its intended purpose. Some have even removed the board entirely and sailed around the world without it. Would believe such a fine boat as the Alden 44 would sail very well for cruising and the centerboard would not be an issue

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by roverhi

First, why would you want to go to the extreme expense of changing to a deep keel to a C/B boat??? The board is there for the anal racer to eke every last degree of windward ability out the there boat almost always in short races around buoys. A cruising boat seldom is concerned with extreme weatherliness, in fact, many of us will go out of way not to have to go to weather. Many cruisers with C/B boats never use their centerboard for its intended purpose. Some have even removed the board entirely and sailed around the world without it. Would believe such a fine boat as the Alden 44 would sail very well for cruising and the centerboard would not be an issue

I would consider the expense if it would eliminate the possibility of a mechanical breakdown. I like to keep things simple.

[roverhi]

There are three things that can happen to a centerboard: 1. board lodged in the well retracted, broken off or lost 2. lifting mechanism disabled with board down and 3. board bent.
1. one is no immediate problem and you could sail around the world without fixing it.

[Andrew Troup]

Originally Posted by roverhi

There are three things that can happen to a centerboard: 1. board lodged in the well retracted, broken off or lost 2. lifting mechanism disabled with board down and 3. board bent.
1. one is no immediate problem and you could sail around the world without fixing it.

The fourth thing (which any boat crossing oceans should consider carefully) with simple centreboards is what happens when the boat is momentarily upside down.

On our first boat, (despite the fact that the furthest we ever went over was a 'mere' 110/120 degrees) we re-engineered the keel case to include a heavy urethane elastomer energy absorbing buffer,

to prevent the sharp trailing edge of the steel plate slicing through the boat like a draughtsman's section line if we did happen to "go all the way"

[Andrew Troup]

To rectify the 'slop' issue, if you have a way of winching the board down, as well as up (which I highly recommend for reasons already mentioned), it's a simple matter of fitting a couple of wedge chocks into the leading end of the slot, between which the leading edge of the plate can be immobilised by pulling it fully forward.

The purchase for pulling the plate down/forward should have some sort of 'fuse' in case of running aground. The fuse should be easily replaceable en route.

Similar chocks can be fitted (in every case, this time) for when the plate is fully up, if it has a tendency to clonk in this configuration.

[Andrew Troup]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

A friend of mine with a swing keel yacht developed a system where he used a 4wd 12v tyre air compressor to force the water out of the keel case when at anchor or moored.

It requires an air tight keel case, so not all yachts could use this, but it seems a great way of reducing growth, electrolysis and corrosion.

One of those great ideas that I have not seen before.

Noelex

Glad you think so! I'm planning to do that on my forthcoming boat. I'm even toying with the idea of a swinging 'divider' which would float on the resulting water surface, and block off the slot to alleviate turbulence when sailing.
It would automatically swing back up out of the way of the centreplate when the air was bled out and the water rose back into the well.

One advantage is that the position could easily be sensed, alerting me when there was need to 'top up' the air. On long passages, it seems it would be beneficial to reduce "growth, electrolysis and corrosion" en route as well as on the hook.

Initially I thought it might make things worse for galvanic corrosion, because I still remember with horror how the parents of a mate when i was a youngun, who had one of the first V6 Merc "Black Max" outboards (they were mad keen waterskiers, despite seeming to me older than God.... they paid for it about half what I paid for my first house!)

Thinking they were doing the best for it, they religiously tilted it out of the water every night, when they put their ski boat on its mooring. The thing was rooted, a complete write-off, after that one season: the anodes didn't work when they weren't in the water!

However, in my case, that's only a worry when my swing keel is fully housed, not when it's down, because most of the anodes are in the lower section

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Andrew Troup

Noelex

Glad you think so! I'm planning to do that on my forthcoming boat.

I bet there a few more great ideas that have going into that boat.

When sailing or even visiting on another boat I invariably come across some new (to me) solutions to problems.

[Blu Beard]

I'm about to own a Tartan 27 with a broken centerboard cable.. I plan on hauling it out anyway, but is this something I could replace while it's in the water? And is dyneema what I should use?

[Greenhand]

That is an interesting question. I am not sure how ours (not a Tartan) would get through all the turns and especially the distance from the cabin top to the trunk itself if it weren't stiff like SS wire, but it would be interesting to know if dyneema is a viable alternative.