Catalina or Hunter?

[bensolomon]

I have a handheld kestrel. I don't have a wind anemometer hard wired. I usually sail by boat feel, rather than absolute value. The wind that day was 12 knots steady with gusts to 15, and the sea state was very mild. The kite cam was about 300 feet up.

Importantly, I was out sailing with my daughters, and we were having a great time, on our Hunter, which we love. We had anchored out and watched the bright moon rise the night before and then watched the sun rise over the water in the morning while drinking coffee from our coffee press.

Regarding the OP, if you love the boat, and you can enjoy her, the brand itself matters little. It's the love of the vessel that keeps her up and going.
Find a catalina or hunter that you can afford, enjoy, and love.

Ben

[angelfish2]

Originally Posted by bensolomon

I have a handheld kestrel. I don't have a wind anemometer hard wired. I usually sail by boat feel, rather than absolute value. The wind that day was 12 knots steady with gusts to 15, and the sea state was very mild. The kite cam was about 300 feet up.

Importantly, I was out sailing with my daughters, and we were having a great time, on our Hunter, which we love. We had anchored out and watched the bright moon rise the night before and then watched the sun rise over the water in the morning while drinking coffee from our coffee press.

Regarding the OP, if you love the boat, and you can enjoy her, the brand itself matters little. It's the love of the vessel that keeps her up and going.
Find a catalina or hunter that you can afford, enjoy, and love.

Ben

Ben, thank you for both your posts. I particularly liked this last paragraph and it really sums it all up, doesn't it?

BTW, your video was lovely.

[BZT54]

Originally Posted by bensolomon

I have a handheld kestrel. I don't have a wind anemometer hard wired. I usually sail by boat feel, rather than absolute value. The wind that day was 12 knots steady with gusts to 15, and the sea state was very mild. The kite cam was about 300 feet up.

Importantly, I was out sailing with my daughters, and we were having a great time, on our Hunter, which we love. We had anchored out and watched the bright moon rise the night before and then watched the sun rise over the water in the morning while drinking coffee from our coffee press.

Regarding the OP, if you love the boat, and you can enjoy her, the brand itself matters little. It's the love of the vessel that keeps her up and going.
Find a catalina or hunter that you can afford, enjoy, and love.

Ben

Ben, “…the brand itself matters little”??? Where did you grow up, Russia? I can’t wait to tell my neighbor that my Honda is just as good as his Mercedes because brand doesn’t matter. Look at all the money you wasted! Riiiiiiight.

I was the purchaser for Rybovich Boats. Ask the owners of a Rybo why they chose it over a Bertram, Hatteras, etc . It's called quality. The fact is Hunters, Cats, Benes and a number of other production boats suffer from what I call the Gumby Syndrome. They all flex and oil can, why, because their interior liners are what strengthens their less than adequate hull lay-ups. Have you ever walked through a yard and seen some of these boats on jack stands? I like dimples on babies, not on a boat I intend to take to sea. OP, don’t be conned. Brand DOES matter.

If you are looking for a coastal cruiser or something to go to the islands the choices are abundant particularly with your budget. Hunters and Cats fit right in. Go Blue Water and you are talking about a different animal.

Although it may seem that some of us are bashing Hunters and Cats we are basically bashing the premise that this is the only option open to you. The Hunter and Cat owners as you can see love their boats and rightfully so. Some of them made the right choice for the type of sailing they do, others well…. they just want you to color within the lines of your original post because they know they could have done better.

Going outside the lines with your search will prove to be a most interesting experience. You may just stumble upon a gem.

BZT

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by BZT54

... Although it may seem that some of us are bashing Hunters and Cats we are basically bashing the premise that this is the only option open to you. The Hunter and Cat owners as you can see love their boats and rightfully so. Some of them made the right choice for the type of sailing they do, others well…. they just want you to color within the lines of your original post because they know they could have done better.

Going outside the lines with your search will prove to be a most interesting experience. You may just stumble upon a gem.

BZT

What he said ^

[JK n Smitty]

Originally Posted by BZT54

Ben, “…the brand itself matters little”??? Where did you grow up, Russia? I can’t wait to tell my neighbor that my Honda is just as good as his Mercedes because brand doesn’t matter. Look at all the money you wasted! Riiiiiiight.



I was the purchaser for Rybovich Boats. Ask the owners of a Rybo why they chose it over a Bertram, Hatteras, etc . It's called quality. The fact is Hunters, Cats, Benes and a number of other production boats suffer from what I call the Gumby Syndrome. They all flex and oil can, why, because their interior liners are what strengthens their less than adequate hull lay-ups. Have you ever walked through a yard and seen some of these boats on jack stands? I like dimples on babies, not on a boat I intend to take to sea. OP, don’t be conned. Brand DOES matter.



If you are looking for a coastal cruiser or something to go to the islands the choices are abundant particularly with your budget. Hunters and Cats fit right in. Go Blue Water and you are talking about a different animal.



Although it may seem that some of us are bashing Hunters and Cats we are basically bashing the premise that this is the only option open to you. The Hunter and Cat owners as you can see love their boats and rightfully so. Some of them made the right choice for the type of sailing they do, others well…. they just want you to color within the lines of your original post because they know they could have done better.



Going outside the lines with your search will prove to be a most interesting experience. You may just stumble upon a gem.



BZT

Can you provide any facts that support that oil canning or hull flexing has caused structural failures on production boats?


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[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by JK n Smitty

Can you provide any facts that support that oil canning or hull flexing has caused structural failures on production boats?


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Seen the video of the Bene that broke up a couple of months ago, that was posted here?

I bought a Hunter 356, all that was left was the survey, mere formality as this boat was a gem. Beautiful boat, well maintained by a meticulous Engineer and very well equipped. On the Hunter site I was told to look for a "soft spot" in the hull just below the head, that on some of these models it was present and the "cure" was to cut the floor out of the shower and glass in a stringer, the stringer would push out the hull and make it stiff again.
Know what? It was there, there was a slightly concave spot two or three ft in diameter, and you could push the hull in there and it would flex a couple of inches. I know a boats hull is like an egg shell, a huge amount of the strength comes from the shape, but still you shouldn't be able to push it in a couple of inches with your thumb. I was prepared to fix that, wasn't happy but prepared.
But we found other structural issues that killed the deal

[JK n Smitty]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Seen the video of the Bene that broke up a couple of months ago, that was posted here?

I assume you are referring to the Cheeki Rafiki? A hard raced charter boat with a questionable maintenance history. Not to mention, the boat didn't break up. From what is know the keel fell off and there were apparent rust stains at the keel bolts. Doesn't fit the discussion at all.

[ontherocks83]

Originally Posted by BZT54

They all flex and oil can, why, because their interior liners are what strengthens their less than adequate hull lay-ups. Have you ever walked through a yard and seen some of these boats on jack stands? I like dimples on babies, not on a boat I intend to take to sea.

I'm throwing the BS Flag on this one. The Yard I am at is primarily made up of Hunters, Catalinas, Bene's and Jeaneaus. Being a lake there is not really any "high end" boats. Never seen this once. This is one of those statements you have to prove not just state.

Even more so 6 or 7 years ago in our 1983 Cat 30 we hit an unmarked rock while under full power and stopped the boat dead. I almost went flying down the companion way. When we got back to the slip we had the boat pulled and professionaly inspected. No hull cracking, no water ingress, no evidence of structual damage at all. Worst thing that happened was a big chunk taken out of the lead keel. And now years later there has been 0 problems or concerns found after the impact.

Sounds pretty strong in my book.

[scuba0_1]

More likely you spend to much time on cf. And I'm sure glad a lot of those old European boats don't make it to the usa. They sure are ugly.. funny they don't make it to the big boat shows here ither they probably can't cross the oceans.. oh yea ...imo....

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[gonesail]

the catalinas are finally being built with a metal toerail and thru bolts every 6" on a turned in flange. they still have the fiberglass interiors being glued and dropped into the hull which is not so great. wiring and plumbing is difficult or impossible to access or enhance because of that. but the finished product looks good and sells like hotcakes.

[JK n Smitty]

Originally Posted by gonesail

the catalinas are finally being built with a metal toerail and thru bolts every 6" on a turned in flange. they still have the fiberglass interiors being glued and dropped into the hull which is not so great. wiring and plumbing is difficult or impossible to access or enhance because of that. but the finished product looks good and sells like hotcakes.

Catalinas were being through bolted prior to adding the aluminum toe rail.

[ontherocks83]

They also are running all of their wires through an oversized conduit system so wire replacement or additions will be much easier.

Like I said for being a production boat they do alot of things well.

Things like full collision bulk heads just aft of the anchor locker, interior structual grid system bonded to the hull which allows all the furniture to be stand alone and non-structual, better quality joinery work compared to similar production boats, Lead Keels, the rudders have a designed failure point 1/3 of the way up so in the event of a hard rudder grounding only the bottom portion will break away leaving you with some steerage and theoretically no leaking holes in the transom where your rudder post used to be, the mast stays pass through the deck and gain most of their strength from being attached further down towards the keel putting very little load on the deck for mast support.


Someone else here put it best. Not everyone can afford an oyster and not everyone wants to restore a classic.


I will say though that I would much rather take a new Catalina 355 trans oceanic right out of the box rather then take a rotted refurbished HC36. (was that comment too soon?)

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by gonesail

the catalinas are finally being built with a metal toerail and thru bolts every 6" on a turned in flange. they still have the fiberglass interiors being glued and dropped into the hull which is not so great. wiring and plumbing is difficult or impossible to access or enhance because of that. but the finished product looks good and sells like hotcakes.

Other than the "selling like hotcakes," the rest is utter nonsense, drivel and just plain wrong.

Interiors are in fiberglass with wood trim, access is great at everything, and the hull to deck joint is just fine.

[sails7plj]

I had a Hunter and it was a fine boat


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[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by sails7plj

I had a Hunter and it was a fine boat

I had a Hunter and it was NOT a fine boat.

The customer service department at Hunter Marine was nonexistent.... Horrible in fact. It was however, a nice dockside condo and day sailer. Friends of ours in the Med are spending a year traveling Southern Spain and Sardinia on their Hunter 38 and seem to be doing fine with no complaints, seems like a nice boat for their intended purpose.

Catalina makes a nice looking boat and so do the European manufacturers. Open up your choices and look beyond Hunter and Catalina at the next boat show.