Can I get some opinions? Ketch - Australia

[NevilleCat]

Exhaustist?

[Toccata]

First things first, choose a boat with "The Look" The Martz Craft is better in this regard (IMHO)
The advice to truck her home is very sensible. There will be many many things to attend to on both those old boats, and much easier to attend to in your home area with support trades you know and can work with.
The ketch rig significantly adds to the complexity of everything, at the cost of performance. Below about 47' I just don't see the advantage of splitting the sail area over 2 masts. (Yes I have sailed on both ketches and schooners)
It's a buyers market, don't rush the purchase.

[RaymondR]

If you are skilled at mechanical work the three things you need to assure before embarking on a coastal passage, hull integrity, rigging integrity and mechanical soundness, appear well within your skill set and the ten to fifteen grand road transport would cost might be better spent on these aspects.

[Franco_oz]

Originally Posted by ChrisJHC

Pretty sure he means the Great Australian Bight.
Crossing Bass Strait is pretty straightforward if you can afford to take your time.

Jim, Chris yes you are totally right. I meant the Bight. I am budgeting plenty time for both preparation and crossing and as Jim mentioned it is not a task to take lightly, hence my worries. Remote doesn't concern me if the trip logistic and supplies are organized properly. I never done either and it may be better to truck her in WA?

[Franco_oz]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

General comment: The trip from either boat's location to WA is a long one (though neither involve crossing Bass Strait) and both involve some remote areas and tough sailing conditions. Buying an elderly vessel which doubtless needs some attention so far from home is,to me, a daunting prospect. I hope you are budgeting plenty of time (weeks most likely) for shaking down and fixing up prior to setting out... along with plenty of additional cash!

I wish you the best of outcomes in your choice and your adventuress.

Jim

Thank you Jim, I joined this forum at the end of 2019 and lurked around until now. Your posts and Ann's have given me (during those years) a true inside view of the reality of sailing.

[Franco_oz]

Originally Posted by HankOnthewater

Hi Franco. I would do as you plan to do: go and see the other boat. Although, all that travel, and later bringing a boat home, add considerably to the cost (as Jim said above). Even if the boats are able to sail halfway around Australia.
Maybe treat that travel as an holiday, less pressure that way, and great enjoyment. Abd if both boats do not meet your requirements, you will learn a lot.
The Marzcraft boat looks certainly nicer, but the Roberts has more room. I agree with others those davits look silly.
I think both boats are reasonably priced, but..... do not know their real condition. When I was looking for a boat I travelled a dozen times interstate and overseas, looked at many disappointing boats, but had a dozen good holidays.

I think there is still a Roberts 36 ketch in Bunbury, I sailed that a bit with the previous owner, although that was not a flush deck version. It had double the interior space of an SS34, sailed half as good as that (these numbers are rough estimates )

Best of luck, from another ketch owner, in a cooler part of WA

Edit: I see now the above post by Neville, good thoughts.

Hi Hank, I agree with you, we take our "boat visits" as mini holidays with no pressure, we are starting to get free time to purse the idea and enjoy the search as much as we will enjoy the boat -if we ever find one!- We already blew over 8k traveling to look at boat and lots of disappointment but I guess it's part of the game. Yes the Davits in boat one are a tad high but with little modifications I can put a nice array of solar. WHat I am trying to achieve here is to find a boat as close as possible to the needs and modify very little at the beginning.... yes, easier said than done... I take you are down south where it's cooler? Here we had 43 and 45 recently. It's like being back in the Pilbara!

[Franco_oz]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Maybe... if it was painted by an exorcist!

Jim

On a different note, one of the most reliable workhorse I had the pleasure to work with is the ford lehman 120. Indestructable, easy to work on and reliable. Even in Italy, finding parts was as simple as a phone call (and wait weeks). Working on OM engines (they became Fiat in the 80s) was -at times- taking longer just to get the parts... most fisherman vessels had Volvo engines replaced by Ford Lehman and Fiat just because of reliability. Just my two cents based on direct experience.

Maybe paint it red and add a 120HP stricker. Pity exorcism wasn't a uni subject. Can't do it!

[Franco_oz]

Originally Posted by Toccata

First things first, choose a boat with "The Look" The Martz Craft is better in this regard (IMHO)
The advice to truck her home is very sensible. There will be many many things to attend to on both those old boats, and much easier to attend to in your home area with support trades you know and can work with.
The ketch rig significantly adds to the complexity of everything, at the cost of performance. Below about 47' I just don't see the advantage of splitting the sail area over 2 masts. (Yes I have sailed on both ketches and schooners)
It's a buyers market, don't rush the purchase.

Hi Toccata, yes it is sensible to truck her home and work in your home port. Also, as both boats are almost at the end of the rigging life span, it would be sensible to do it as the masts will be down. Mast maintenance and rewiring as well. I am evaluating it and I am running in circles.
Back when I was young, I worked a lot on power vessels, occasionally I was out on sailing boat, never catch my interest to be honest. One day I went out on a beautiful boat after doing minor work to it. It was a ketch. The owner Roberto, a middle 70s man sailed that beauty with knoweledge and class. Something I have been treasuring my entire life. He showed me things I would never tought were possible without an engine to push you. I was young, I thought I knew everything, I knew jack s**t. Life goes on, you get older but that memory never fade. Midship cockpit, aft cabin, a mizzen to play with, a second mast to put more electronic crap... do I make sense? Of course not on a <40' boat. Do I want it? yes! it's silly, I know full well. Will I ever get skilled enough to do half of the things Roberto could do? No, I doubt it. Cheers, you guys are all spot on on the comments and advices given.

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by Franco_oz

On a different note, one of the most reliable workhorse I had the pleasure to work with is the ford lehman 120. Indestructable, easy to work on and reliable. Even in Italy, finding parts was as simple as a phone call (and wait weeks). Working on OM engines (they became Fiat in the 80s) was -at times- taking longer just to get the parts... most fisherman vessels had Volvo engines replaced by Ford Lehman and Fiat just because of reliability. Just my two cents based on direct experience.

Maybe paint it red and add a 120HP stricker. Pity exorcism wasn't a uni subject. Can't do it!

I agree about the Ford Lehman conversion, great engine. Your first boat has, as you point out, an MD17C, terrific engine but usually raw water cooled so when the water galleries finally corrode badly enough, it’s the end of the line for whole thing, not too long ago I sent one of these to the scrap metal dealers because of this exact problem. If your first on the list has a heat exchanger cooled engine (from the beginning), it should be OK though as long as it has good oil pressure, no crankcase pressure and a good gearbox.( I don’t think there are any alternative replacements for that particular engine)
The second on your list is a boat I think I know from my time in Townsville…..and if it is, for sure it’s been well looked after and maintained. My only concern about the machinery is that it has a Technodrive gearbox and since you have experience with Italian engineering, I need go no further, this one is likely to be an early release model, the least reliable.

[NevilleCat]

�� Look at this post on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1Xt...ibextid=kL3p88
To add to the mix

[psk125]

Hard to tell from photos that may not be current, but the Marzcraft boat looks nicer with its cabin trunk, and seems to have a better overall layout. It also seems to have been equipped for voyaging by an owner who knew what he was doing. What is going on in the Robert's head? You sit sideways? At anchor it might work, but that might not be fun under way. If they both appeal to you equally, the actual condition of the vessels is what matters.

[cjheath]

Agree 100%

[Franco_oz]

ok, we spent yesterday inspecting the Martzcraft in QLD. Overall it's in decent nick. There are a couple of issues I would like to get some opinion. Structural issues. For the life of me, I can't figure out how to add pictures in my post. When I click on the pics icon it only shows a popup aking for the url of the pic. Instead of trying to explain it's easier to show... can anyone tell me how to insert pics? Cheers

[Franco_oz]

I figured it out!
Starboard bulkhead at beginning of AFT cabin. Directly undearneath of (what i think) added stanchion to support a gunwale to gunwale bimini. It is a crack, hope the pics show enough. Tapping don't change sound around the area, running my fingers I can "feel" like a very tiny crack, fingernail barely catches on it. No moisture or signs of recent water infiltration. Should it be attended? Grinding and cleaning the area and re glass? Port side opposite stanchion shows no problem at all. Am I imagining the crack felt under my finger?
Starbord window hatch on top of galley. The area marked between the two small red marks. Feels hollow and spongy. It's quite big, about 40cm lenght by 4/5 cm height. Looks like water infiltration caused the core to rot. If I am right, I can't think of any other way than cut the affected area out and rebuild the area. What would you do?
Second starboard window on top of galley. There is a crack on the liner, small bubble undearneath. Little difference in sound when tapping. Looks to me like another water infiltration. Not as severe as the previous one. Is it worth to attend it? Should both windows be removed, area inspected and possibly re-seal the whole window frame?
VBert bulkhead. The area in front of the windlass, shows some rot wood patched up, I can't really reach it and hope it's nothing serious. The whole anchor locker/windlass is a tad different. Locker is in front of windlass so chain runs on top of the hatch making it hard to open for routine inspection. Kind of the windlass was an after thought addition?
May I get your opinion?

[Hugo B]

The question is why does it have to be a ketch rigged boat? One thing that comes to mind is (apart from the fact that such a configuration is more to handle) that with a mizzen it is much more difficult to fit a windvane, which presumably you want seeing you are planning to do big trips.

In any case, to be honest I would not buy any of the two boats listed, there are way too many issues with both of them. The Roberts 36, to be honest is not a very appealing boat especially with the bulk of the body so high above the waterline which is likely to lead to high windage. The Martzcraft looks like the better boat of the two in terms of design but then you found it has major issues as well.

In your situation, seeing you are in WA, I would think about this one, seeing it has a hydrovane already and the fact that Duncanson yachts have a very good reputation :
https://www.boatsonline.com.au/boats...nson-40/298425. Or perhaps this Van der Stadt, also in WA which actually quite seaworthy boats, as long as you don't mind steel: https://www.boatsonline.com.au/boats...cruiser/304502

But if it must be a ketch and you are willing to go to other places to get it, what about this one? Pearson boats have an excellent reputation: https://www.boatsonline.com.au/boats...5-ketch/307348. There is even a Duncanson ketch, worth considering although it looks like the engine might need a bit of work : https://www.boatsonline.com.au/boats...t-ketch/292357. And again, if it has to be a ketch but you don't mind wood, this looks like a real beauty, in great shape with a great engine too: https://www.boatsonline.com.au/boats...ilstein/300344.

All in all, if I was in the market for buying a ketch under 40 ft and plan to do extended cruising, I definitely would go for the Pearson, although she is in the Philippines.