Can I get some opinions? Ketch - Australia

[Franco_oz]

I would like some opinions about two 36' ketch I found. I am in Western Australia, been looking for over one year and finally found two within my price range that kinda tick the boxes of what I am after.
Not many ketch below 40' and surely none in WA where I am. I fly out two wees ago to look at the one in Geelong VIC and flying out next week to look at the one in QLD.
About me/us. We are 60 and 54, wife sailed lots more than me in her early life, I have extensive experience in mechanics and electrical, back in the late 80s I was one of the leading engineers (don't hold it agains me) in an Italian company that produced marinized engines. I did few Atlantic crossings to Africa when I worked with fishermen (and much much younger).
Now we are looking for a ketch and do mainly coastal around Australia for a couple of years and venture to the blue water in the South Pacific.
If anyone is keen to give me an opinion, I would truly appreciate it.

Boat 1. Geelong.
https://www.boatsonline.com.au/boats...6-ketch/303283
The goods:
This boat comes with a 2 year old inflatable tender and a new Mercury 5HP
HF radio, Radar, AIS. Electronics is in very good order and working.
Strong Davits, new anodes, no osmosis. Boat is hauled out every year. Sails are all in good orders, I would give it 8/10. Great access to water tanks and fuel tanks.

The bads:
Electrical needs some major work, good battery banks but wiring is not really done in a professional way. The engine is very old, it runs and sounds ok. Maintenance is done yearly by the owner but... it needs a overhaul, Volvo parts are a nightmare to source and my personal experience with Volvo is unfortunately horrible. Both in Europe and here. I would repower the boat if I procede to buy it. Some of the work in this boat (cosmetic) is poor. Infiltration of water from two windows on the starboard side was fixed but needs some extra work.

This boat is in Geelong, asking price is 45K but as similar boat in Hastings is now going for 39K, he is happy to negotiate and probably match the price. I will have to probably get an experienced skipper to cross the Bass Strait as I don't feel competent enough to do it alone. (I know my limits)

Boat 2. Townsville QLD.
https://www.boatsonline.com.au/boats...t-ketch/302759

We haven't seen this boat yet, I base my judgemets on the pictures and the survey provided.
Wife loves the AFT cabin, definetely looks better than the boat in Geelong. Rigging is of similar age as the Geelong boat. Boat present (on pictures) slightly better than the Geelong boat. Head looks more functional (again, hard without seeing it). Vee berth needs a tidy up and some fixing. There is no mizzen, unsure on the davits capability, no diving board at the back, no tender, no comms no AIS. Same as the Geelong boat, it had water infiltrations from few windows. If it was picked up and fixed early enough, there should be no core damage. Lazzarette shows some decay in the vicinitry of mizzen chainplate, I can't comment until I see the boat. The engine: as a disclaimer, in the 80s I was one of the leading engineers in Nanni, I don't think I need to say much more. The TMC 40 transmission is a decent one. I don't know what to make of the weird engine mounts, I believe at some stage the boat was repowered. This engine and the transmission may be a tad small for a Roberts 36. 40HP engine and a TMC60 transmission would be a lot better.
We invested already around 8K just flying around to inspect boats. I look forward to see it. Also, it's more exciting the idea to sail a boat from Townsville to Perth than trying to kill myself crossing the Bass Strait!

My previous post about osmosis not weeping was related to this boat.

If anything is not clear or i haven't explained enough please feel free to comment. Cheers from a stinking hot WA

[MicHughV]

My first boat was a Roberts 38 ketch with center cockpit. It's a dated design, but took me all over the place in relative comfort and safety. My engine was 27 hp and did just fine.

Aft cabins are great in port, but not so much at sea.
I thought 38' was a tad small for a center cockpit boat, 36' even more so and would be inclined to suggest an aft cockpit design.
I think 43' is really a practical minimum for a center cockpit boat.

I grew to love the ketch rig, it's a very versatile rig. I attach a pic, so you can see the scale of things. That's me on the bow.

[Orion Jim]

Neither appeal to me but love is in the eye of the beholder. They are both major project boats. The first question you have to ask yourself is “do I want to sail a boat or do I prefer to work on a boat”. The old adage is still relevant, the most expensive boat I ever owned was free. You will be shocked and the time and money spent to update and upgrade a yacht. Something of more recent vintage with modern amenities and performance will be cheaper in the long run. Good luck in your search.

[MicHughV]

Some truth to that. I built my boat from the ground up, which was one thing, but got to know several other people that took on " rebuild" project projects and invariably they had underestimated the time and money it took.
The problem with " project" boats as I see it, is that one first has to undo a lot of stuff before one can start installing, repairing, replacing, etc.

[boatman61]

To be honest those davits (boat 1) don't look suitable for world cruising, go to far out in my opinion.
Otherwise she's not to bad, and you can always strap the dinghy on the foredeck for longer trips.
Prefer the second..

[MicHughV]

I agree, those davits are way too high, etc... too top heavy, needs addressing
I'd ditch the 3 blade prop as well...

[Jim Cate]

General comment: The trip from either boat's location to WA is a long one (though neither involve crossing Bass Strait) and both involve some remote areas and tough sailing conditions. Buying an elderly vessel which doubtless needs some attention so far from home is,to me, a daunting prospect. I hope you are budgeting plenty of time (weeks most likely) for shaking down and fixing up prior to setting out... along with plenty of additional cash!

I wish you the best of outcomes in your choice and your adventuress.

Jim

[ChrisJHC]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

General comment: The trip from either boat's location to WA is a long one (though neither involve crossing Bass Strait) and both involve some remote areas and tough sailing conditions.

Snip

Pretty sure he means the Great Australian Bight.
Crossing Bass Strait is pretty straightforward if you can afford to take your time.

[Fore and Aft]

Franco neither boat appeals to me, I enjoy swimming of a sugar scoop to much. But if I had to make the choice the Martzcraft would be the one for us. The newer diesel is the biggest selling point. The interior room is ok, although the toilet compartment is not very spacious. I have surveyed both designs plenty of times and the Martzcraft has the most consistent quality.
Don't discount trucking her home. You never know until you start ringing around what deals there are.
Cheers

[Jim Cate]

Crossing Bass Strait is pretty straightforward if you can afford to take your time.

Quite so! Ann and I have done it (one way or the other) 35 times now over the years and never had serious wx or even much discomfort... but we've spent a lot of time in Eden and on the NE coast of Tassie waiting for things to settle down.

But we've never done it in an older boat that we have just purchased! the OP's situation is a worrisome one unless lots of time is involved, both for shakedown and for careful travel.

Jim

[NevilleCat]

Check the headroom on the flush deck one...the only one of those I've been on years ago....might have been the same one if it used to live in Portland... was pretty dark and close inside, not a great vibe.
You probably should have a look at the pretty Walker H28 also in Geelong just to confirm whether that would be just too small for you. They have a small band of enthusiastic supporters.
If you're coming to Vic the Roberts you mentioned in Hastings would be worth a look too, new rigging and some new sails. The living space on those designs is somewhat compromised to give you that nice aft cabin though
I'm surprised there aren't more of those Roberts/Martzcraft on the market at the moment, those and the similar South Coast 36 seem to crop up regularly.
Personally I wouldn't bother limiting yourself to a ketch if you're looking less than 40 feet, certainly it's pretty ok to handle a conservative sloop or cutter rig of a 36 footer.
There is that pretty little classic Cheoy Lee in Iluka NSW though... Guaranteed conversation starter if you turn up to the anchorage in that....
Good luck with the search!

[HankOnthewater]

Hi Franco. I would do as you plan to do: go and see the other boat. Although, all that travel, and later bringing a boat home, add considerably to the cost (as Jim said above). Even if the boats are able to sail halfway around Australia.
Maybe treat that travel as an holiday, less pressure that way, and great enjoyment. Abd if both boats do not meet your requirements, you will learn a lot.
The Marzcraft boat looks certainly nicer, but the Roberts has more room. I agree with others those davits look silly.
I think both boats are reasonably priced, but..... do not know their real condition. When I was looking for a boat I travelled a dozen times interstate and overseas, looked at many disappointing boats, but had a dozen good holidays.

I think there is still a Roberts 36 ketch in Bunbury, I sailed that a bit with the previous owner, although that was not a flush deck version. It had double the interior space of an SS34, sailed half as good as that (these numbers are rough estimates )

Best of luck, from another ketch owner, in a cooler part of WA

Edit: I see now the above post by Neville, good thoughts.

[RaymondR]

Crossing the Bight towards the end of summer with a high down in the Great Southern Ocean providing easterlies is a far more pleasant prospect than beating south from North West Cape to Fremantle against the prevailing south westerlies.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Crossing the Bight towards the end of summer with a high down in the Great Southern Ocean providing easterlies is a far more pleasant prospect than beating south from North West Cape to Fremantle against the prevailing south westerlies.

Agreed. All things considered I don't think either boat would be crossing this season.

Moving right along I would far rather the second boat.
I can see one big blister, I had heaps like that. Sailed about 15,000 miles with them before Hotvac- ing her in NZ.
I see you can get the hotvac treatment in Newcastle NSW.
https://www.midcoastboatyard.com.au/...and-treatment/

I wonder if painting that MD17 blue took the curse off it?

[Jim Cate]

I wonder if painting that MD17 blue took the curse off it?

Maybe... if it was painted by an exorcist!

Jim