Another first boat thread. Alberg 30, 1975

[JohnHolland]

If hull deck joint fasteners are brass you will see the green stain, punch through, put 4200 in holes and replace w SS. Check the chainplate knees, the old sealant often fails at deck joint allowing water into glassed in plywood knees rotting them out. Cut out inner edge of glass, remove rotten plywood and replace with epoxy/microballoons or polyester fibre and resin mix.
Check cast aluminum mast head, especially tangs, for cracks and bubbles...had a tang fail in strong winds, not pretty.
Good offshore boat, forgiving, took us from Toronto to NZ with few problems...had a Volvo diesel MD7A replacement for A4.

[joelhemington]

I think I'd refrain from installing the holding tank in the V berth. At 8 lbs per gallon, water will add a lot of weight up front (where you don't want it). The closer to a low point mid ship would be best.

If you just want a project, the Alberg has a very good reputation. Cost wise, you'd be better off with something in better shape at a higher cost upfront. Somebody once said that the renovations done by the previous owner were always the lowest priced.

[Scaramanga F25]

Depending on where it was built the hull to deck joint was sealed with butyl rubber strip. Stays soft for years. Give the bolts a turn or two and check for seal by taping all openings and pressurise the cabin with a blow vacuum or leaf blower. Soap suds the ports and all joints.

[Scaramanga F25]

Google: Sailboat Atom

[fxarcher]

You might want to check out this thread:
https://atomvoyages.com/atom.html

[Don C L]

Sure sounds like a good deal to me!
Yes to check bulkhead tabbing, but still.. sounds good!

[laika]

I'd bet somewhere between $4001 and $50k! New chainplates and rigging alone will get you somewhere in that range. Twice the money and thrice the time as the old adage goes..

A project boat is great way to learn the systems and circumvent a lot of WtF scenarios on the water. It's also an easy way to spend a lot of time in the back of an old dusty boatyard fixing the boat in ways you don't know don't need fixing.

If you buy it, be weary of mission creep. Fix the biggies and then get to it. Once it yours, only you really know what the boat needs, and you can only know that through time spent on the water. The boat will never be bristol and is always a work in progress.

[Paul Howard]

I have sailed on several Alberg 30's over the years and they do sail well and had an enthusiastic following and owners association. They are a bit tender, as Carl Alberg designed them for lead ballast but Kurt Hansen of Whitby Boat Works decided to cut costs by installing cast iron ballast in them. So they do sail on their ear. A friend did a trans-atlantic in one and during his slideshow of the cruise had a sequence of photos showing the boat rolling deeply from one deck well immersed to the other side deck deeply immersed.
Do not increase the size of rigging or any other weight above the waterline or you will make the boat more tender. The rigging/chainplates are just fine as sized.

[xxxxx]

Well, first of all, thank you all for taking the time to respond thoughtfully. You've all been helpful in deciding how to go forward.


The boat "sings to me". I am going to view the boat one more time, check a few last things, and make an offer.

At this price, it's something I can walk away from without too many hard feelings.



I think this boat has a lot of potential in terms of a learning experience, a rewarding project, and a boat that will provide me and my loved ones with years of enjoyment.


Now to find a boatyard.


Thanks again, everyone!

[xxxxx]

Originally Posted by Sparx

Xxxxx,
Your list of conditions is not out of line for a boat of this age. The years of non use will mean there are many issues to be discovered...You will be starting with a hull and mast, everything else will need replacing.
...

I am not saying don't go for it. If you are someone that loves a project this refit can be very satisfying. If you just want to get sailing there are faster and cheaper pathways.

Enjoy the journey!

Thank you for the insightful response. I am that type of person...for me the process is a big part of the enjoyment. It's not so much about the destination, as the journey itself

Originally Posted by Kauri

A sober assessment but informed and accurate.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Scaramanga F25

Nothing really wrong with an Atomic 4. Smooth running and lots of cheap parts available.
However should you go outboard install it in the lazaret as others have done.

Agreed regarding the inboard engine. If I can get it working, I'll keep it. If it's going to be unreasonable to fix, I'll go outboard.


I've seen the lazarette mod and it's super slick. I think I'd still go on the transom for my needs, as I would resent the lost storage space (another reason I'm considering ditching the inboard).

Originally Posted by George DuBose

The builder probably used silicone to seal the bolts along the hull deck joint. Silicone fails after a decade or two. My 1973 Pearson had silicone failure everywhere and the leaks caused the inner hull liner to delaminate and warp. That combined with all the inoperable and severely out-dated electronics caused the surveyor to tell me not to buy the boat.

I knew that all the problems were within my capability to repair and I wanted the latest generation of electronics, so I bought the boat.

After 10 years of renovations, she is better than new.

Beautiful! Encouraging words. I also feel that these types of repairs are well within my abilities.

Originally Posted by dickfred

I know a guy who had a similar boat and also opted for an outboard rather than replace the atomic four with a diesel or similar. Bad result. In moderate following seas, the prop rose out of the water, racing. AND you're carrying gasoline!

OK, something to keep in mind. Thank you.

Originally Posted by fred4936

Very sturdy, seaworthy, and pretty boats. There is a book titled something like "20 Boats That Can Take You Anyhere", which covers this boat in some detail. I think the author is John Vigor. I have it someplace, sorry about not being 100% accurate. But a very good guide for someone looking at one of the 20 boats covered by this book. I will try to find it and verify the info.

Yessir! I purchased the book about a year ago. Helpful starting point for anyone looking at their first. That, and Gelinas' experiences have pushed me heavily toward the A30.

Originally Posted by Tillerjockey

I've owned several boats. One had an atomic 4 which was a great engine, it has a carburator which may need cleaning after being stored all those years, but who knows. You can pay for a survey and sea trial to see if there are any unknown issues. Outside of that, the boat sounds like it's ready to go sailing. Most boats have some leakage somewhere. It's a matter of tracking them down and fixing them or just putting in crack sealant as a band-aid. Small delamination area and soft spots are not much of a problem as long as you can stop further water intrusion. Repairing a delaminated deck is a big project. Been there done that, don't want to do it again. Otherwise just go sailing, pick the project you want to tackle next and have fun. They are well built, comfortable , sailing boats and are very pretty at anchor.

Perfect! That's my mindset as well. I'll deal with the obvious problems, seal up to stop intrusion, make sure the vessel is safe, and then go from there. As things pop up, I'll prioritize the projects and go from there.

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Is the hull blue? What's her name? There was a really sweet one we looked at several years ago, also owned by an old engineer and it was set up well and in great shape.


Also around Hamilton is this one:
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/oak...oat/1486789816

Originally Posted by roverhi

Yves Gelines of Cape Horn self steering sailed an Alberg 30 around the world. He made a film of the voyage that he sells on the website that is well worth viewing. http://capehorn.com/sections/Pages/superlatives.htm

He made the voyage sans engine but added an outboard on a rather intricate mount for local cruising.

A4's have a problem with the valves sticking if not preserved properly when laid up. Cure may be as easy as pulling the head and tapping on the valve to free them up.

Yessir, I've purchased and watched the movie and followed the epic of Jean-du-sud. Quite inspiring. It's not what made me want to get into sailing, but it further reinforced the idea that this is what I want to do...eventually.


"Walk before you run. Crawl before you walk."

Originally Posted by thomm225

That boat appears to have lots of problems mainly due to the water intrusion. It's going to take quite a bit to get it right.
...
Side note. There is a 1985 Cape Dory 270 at my marina for sale...

I think you're right. The first thing to deal with is the intrusion (and the original seackocks...I just can't trust them).


I'll look at the Cape Dory. I have looked at a few American boats online, the problem comes when viewing them in person, and also the import process and costs of transportation to bring it to Canada.


Your Bristol sounds like a great boat. You must have a huge sense of ownership after putting so much of yourself into the refit.

Originally Posted by john-o

I bought an Albert 30 a year ago and I’m finishing up a complete refit. It was in worse shape than this one by the sound of it; I had to replace some bulkheads and re-seal the bilge. The surveyor missed the rot in the bulkheads. In any case, I can’t imagine how anyone could possibly spend US$50,000 to get it seaworthy; perhaps you could take it to a very expensive boatyard and tell them money’s no object. I’ll have spent about Can$4,000 when finished, not including new electronics, which I may or may not need. Apart from the bulkheads and re-sealing the bilge, my refit included replacing toe rails and re-sealing the deck to hull, replacing some thru-hulls, backing deck fittings with stainless plate, paint inside and out, mostly new plumbing and bilge pump, and a bit of engine work. I did all the work myself.

The A-30 that you describe sounds like the bargain of the century to me. If you decide you don’t want her let me know.

This is a very encouraging post. Sounds like we're in the same boat.


I don't plan on outfitting her with the latest and greatest of anything. Just safe, functional, comfortable.

[xxxxx]

Originally Posted by JohnHolland

If hull deck joint fasteners are brass you will see the green stain, punch through, put 4200 in holes and replace w SS.

Check the chainplate knees, the old sealant often fails at deck joint allowing water into glassed in plywood knees rotting them out. Cut out inner edge of glass, remove rotten plywood and replace with epoxy/microballoons or polyester fibre and resin mix.


Check cast aluminum mast head, especially tangs, for cracks and bubbles...had a tang fail in strong winds, not pretty.
Good offshore boat, forgiving, took us from Toronto to NZ with few problems...had a Volvo diesel MD7A replacement for A4.

Great to hear you've had such great experiences. Maybe one day I'll be able to do the same.


I will make sure to more closely examine the mast head. Thanks for that tip.


Regarding the deck-hull fasteners, they are indeed stainless. I think they need new sealant at minimum.

Originally Posted by joelhemington

I think I'd refrain from installing the holding tank in the V berth. At 8 lbs per gallon, water will add a lot of weight up front (where you don't want it). The closer to a low point mid ship would be best.

If you just want a project, the Alberg has a very good reputation. Cost wise, you'd be better off with something in better shape at a higher cost upfront. Somebody once said that the renovations done by the previous owner were always the lowest priced.

The holding tank in the v-berth is a common mod in the alberg. I'm not sure why they started doing it, other than maybe better access to the bilge/keel area for storage, etc.


I think you're right that a previously refitted boat would be cheaper (and easier) to start enjoying. The problem is there aren't any models I'm interested in at the right budget.

Originally Posted by Scaramanga F25

Depending on where it was built the hull to deck joint was sealed with butyl rubber strip. Stays soft for years. Give the bolts a turn or two and check for seal by taping all openings and pressurise the cabin with a blow vacuum or leaf blower. Soap suds the ports and all joints.

Whitby boatworks in Ajax. I like the idea of the soap bubbles and blower. Like checking for a tire leak or gas leak. Beautiful. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Scaramanga F25

Google: Sailboat Atom

Yessir! I've been reading/watching/following. Incredible work!

Originally Posted by fxarcher

You might want to check out this thread:
https://atomvoyages.com/atom.html

Originally Posted by Don C L

Sure sounds like a good deal to me!
Yes to check bulkhead tabbing, but still.. sounds good!

Thank you!

Originally Posted by laika

I'd bet somewhere between $4001 and $50k! New chainplates and rigging alone will get you somewhere in that range. Twice the money and thrice the time as the old adage goes..

A project boat is great way to learn the systems and circumvent a lot of WtF scenarios on the water. It's also an easy way to spend a lot of time in the back of an old dusty boatyard fixing the boat in ways you don't know don't need fixing.

If you buy it, be weary of mission creep. Fix the biggies and then get to it. Once it yours, only you really know what the boat needs, and you can only know that through time spent on the water. The boat will never be bristol and is always a work in progress.

Mmm.... "fixing things you don't know don't need fixing." Very true. I hope to avoid that.


I plan to fix critical problems, and then spend some time with it and see where to go from there.

Originally Posted by Paul Howard

IDo not increase the size of rigging or any other weight above the waterline or you will make the boat more tender. The rigging/chainplates are just fine as sized.

Interesting. I've seen a lot of suggestions to increase the rigging and chainplates. Your suggestion makes sense though, to keep weight down above the waterline. Perhaps I'll just put better hardware on the chainplates. I suppose it will depend on what I find when I disassemble them.

[thomm225]

Not sure how far you will go with the Atomic 4 but here's where you can get a totallt refurbed replacement or info on them.

https://moyermarine.com/

I have a 2011 outboard on a bracket on my boat which is around 6600 lb displacement. I works for me so far. The bracket is adjustable and the motor has the 25" extra long shaft. Outboard bracket in full up in picture showing the outboard on the bracket. My old bracket. (new in 2011, the vibration causes parts to come off the brackets. I took care of that on my new bracket)

There's a guy at my dock that has a nice setup with a new 9.9 Mercury with controls in the cockpit. Let me know later and I'll get pictures for you if you go that route

Your boat will be around 10,000 I believe so that 30 hp Atomic 4 might come in handy. There are several videos on you tube with them running also. They are quite running engines

And one quick warning on refits. This guy started his refit before I bought my boat in 2011 and he's still working on the refit. Looks like he started in 2009. Bristol27.com

[xxxxx]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Not sure how far you will go with the Atomic 4 but here's where you can get a totallt refurbed replacement or info on them.

https://moyermarine.com/

Thanks! Another avenue to consider. I have no problem overhauling the engine if it makes financial sense to do so. If the costs are the same, I'd rather spend the $ on a new OB than restore the old inboard. My aversion to the inboard on a boat this size is the weight (~350lbs) and the space it takes that could otherwise be used for storage.

'Aversion' is not the right word, but you get my point.

It'll all depend on what I find when I start on the engine. I'm happy to see a one-stop-shop for the atomic 4 though. Prices seem reasonable. Beautiful! Thanks for sharing!


A lot of people prefer diesel to gasoline. I prefer gasoline for a few reasons, including familiarity with gasoline internal combustion engines, and the fact that it evaporates and leaves less odour.

I have a 2011 outboard on a bracket on my boat which is around 6600 lb displacement. I works for me so far. The bracket is adjustable and the motor has the 25" extra long shaft. Outboard bracket in full up in picture showing the outboard on the bracket. My old bracket. (new in 2011, the vibration causes parts to come off the brackets. I took care of that on my new bracket)

There's a guy at my dock that has a nice setup with a new 9.9 Mercury with controls in the cockpit. Let me know later and I'll get pictures for you if you go that route

Very slick. That's likely the route I'd go. Remote throttle at minimum.


What size engine do you use on your 6000lb?

Your boat will be around 10,000 I believe so that 30 hp Atomic 4 might come in handy. There are several videos on you tube with them running also. They are quite running engines

Right. It's a big boat. The idea for the kicker is primarily to get in and out of harbours. Still, for making miles, if I go OB I'd probably go 15HP, maybe even 20HP.

And one quick warning on refits. This guy started his refit before I bought my boat in 2011 and he's still working on the refit. Looks like he started in 2009. Bristol27.com

Thanks man. I have no delusions that it can be a pit of both money and time. I'm lucky that my job allows me enough time off, but maybe not enough money

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by xxxxx

Thanks! Another avenue to consider. I have no problem overhauling the engine if it makes financial sense to do so. If the costs are the same, I'd rather spend the $ on a new OB than restore the old inboard. My aversion to the inboard on a boat this size is the weight (~350lbs) and the space it takes that could otherwise be used for storage.

'Aversion' is not the right word, but you get my point.

It'll all depend on what I find when I start on the engine. I'm happy to see a one-stop-shop for the atomic 4 though. Prices seem reasonable. Beautiful! Thanks for sharing!


A lot of people prefer diesel to gasoline. I prefer gasoline for a few reasons, including familiarity with gasoline internal combustion engines, and the fact that it evaporates and leaves less odour.


Very slick. That's likely the route I'd go. Remote throttle at minimum.


What size engine do you use on your 6600lb?


Right. It's a big boat. The idea for the kicker is primarily to get in and out of harbours. Still, for making miles, if I go OB I'd probably go 15HP, maybe even 20HP.


Thanks man. I have no delusions that it can be a pit of both money and time. I'm lucky that my job allows me enough time off, but maybe not enough money

I'm using the 5 hp 4 stroke extra long shaft outboard that's in the picture. I bought it new in 2011 after the second old diesel I installed in the boat failed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpZhq35etcw

The Bukh 10 hp that was in my boat weighed in at 352 lbs. I removed that along with the prop shaft, stuffing box, muffler, prop, diesel fuel tank, motor mounts, and tons of grease, old oil, and sludge from the bilge.

It probably lighten the boat by at least 400 lbs. and got rid of the old diesel smells.

It looks like James Baldwin on his Atom Voyages website used a 6 hp outboard when he refit this Alberg 30. He'll probably have lots of good video about that refit that can help you

https://atomvoyages.com/articles/voy...shakedown.html

Alberg 30 refit:

https://atomvoyages.com/gallery/yout...rior-2016.html

[RSB333]

Sounds like half the fun will be the refit job. I would never recommend placing the holding tank under the Vee berth - It can keep one awake all night. Better to consider a composting toilet if you can fit it in, and save the space where the holding tank was for tools, etc.
Have Fun!
rsb333