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Old 22-02-2011, 23:46   #91
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

Our thoughts and prayers goes to the family of the 4 yachties that lost their lives.
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Old 22-02-2011, 23:54   #92
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

The only method proven to minimize Piracy (eradication is nearly impossible), is "gunboat diplomacy". Caesar wiped out the Aegean pirates by hunting them down and executing them. Unfortunately, piracy goes hand in glove with a compliant or weak state. So you do need some form of diplomacy to rein in such rogue states.

Hell, Wreckers were operating off the southern coasts of Britain till a hundred and fifty years ago. With the worlds mightiest navy ruling the seas...
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Old 22-02-2011, 23:57   #93
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

you see alot of freighters come in with concertina wire stretched around their entire gunnel line..[/QUOTE]

this is what i belive is the future for commercial shipping,and probably the most cost effective.

not nessaceraly arming them,but building them so it is very difficult to board them at sea,high sheer sides,overhangs,safe rooms etc.

this,as older ships get phased out will reduce the problem,un fortunately,it will make soft targets like yachts more of a target.

cape town to europe via cape verdes ,madiera or azores is not such a bad trip,equally cocos keeling,chagos ,mada, richards bay............
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Old 23-02-2011, 01:24   #94
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

There are several things that can be done right away to deter piracy.

Ask yourself why piracy is so attractive. The somalis are poor, and angry over having their fishing grounds depleted, yet right in front of their noses glide multi-million dollar cargoes, unprotected, supervised by people who will give in pretty easily. All you need to do is climb on, wave a pistol, drive the boat to somalia, and make a phone call. A short time later, you receive a millon dollars. It's as easy as taking candy from a baby, since the odds or getting caught are fairly small - the area is huge, and wonderful innoviations like AIS helps the pirates plan attacks. Hey, there's even a picture of the boat on the screen to help you identify it!

Here's what I think should be done now:

1. Outfit every vessel with a coded locking mechanism, which, when locked, disables the vessel and sends out a distress call (equivalent to an EPIRB). So when the crew spots an imment attack, they lock the vessel. It may travel another 5 miles, but it sure isn't going to make it to Somalia.

2. Establish a safe room for the crew onboard, locked from the inside and no way to open from the outside. There are supplies for one week inside, and a satellite phone. Having disabled the vessel, the crew retreats here and waits for the rescue team.

3. The distress signal dispatches a helicopter with a SEAL team from the nearest naval vessel. On arrival, the SEAL team deploys and engages the pirates if they chose to stick around (they most porbably won't). Since the SEALs know the crew is safe on their arrival, the orders are to shoot to kill.

4. The SEAL team secures the vessel, the crew unlocks the vessel and resumes their duties. The pirates are left either empty handed or dead.

BWS

P.S. I should add that the commercial cargo is the big attraction to the pirates. If they can't make money on it, they're not going to string out a bunch of motherships across the ocean for a private yacht. The prospect of certain gain is very uncertain in this scenario.
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Old 23-02-2011, 02:38   #95
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

My condolences to the families of the crew of S/V Quest.

How to end this Piracy in GoA and IO region?
Agree with most cruisers that some kind of military crackdown is indeed needed.
this Piracy in Somalia is not home grown but planned/designed by some unkonwn non state actors. It is they who are making the most money. it is business for them. they are using the unemployed Somalis bcoz they are aware they have nothing else to do so they will take to crime easily. Ok. fine, they are exploiting people who are desperate to earn something.

So the legitimate action would be to
1. crackdown at sea. Once the pirates/motherships start getting busted one after the other, the logistics of keeping the pirates at sea would increase many fold. This will turn the non-state actors' balance sheets to go in RED. And it will pinch them badly because there are government subsidies or bailouts for this kind of business :-)

2. Simultaneously, start some kind of political process in Somalia. for god sake try to install some kind of government (even if they are corrupt, at least it is better than anarchy) with peace keeping forces.

3. Provide small scale cottage industries - like handicrafts, agriculture equipments, irrigation. some thing that will keep the devils busy. Once they know that going out to sea is sure death they will pick up any job that is available around...
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Old 23-02-2011, 02:40   #96
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

"And it will pinch them badly because there are NO government subsidies or bailouts for this kind of business :-)"

silly mistake
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Old 23-02-2011, 04:49   #97
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

Establishing a government is not the correct action. Yemen, Djibouti, Somalia, Ethiopia...its all infested with coruption. We already have a military outpost in Djibouti. We would never win our agenda. We would be permanently defending our position like in the Korea or Iraq. Theres not enough space to work and any dipomacy would be continually attacked from close borders (like Pak, Afg, Kash).

No....supreme and decisive international interest and firepower supported by rage against the crimes si what is needed. Regardless of what the value to a human life is calculated to be, there are some things that need to be done for the sake of whats right. With war debts so high that they will never be balanced, with USN ships deployed around the globe at all times consuming enormous amounts of consumables where no action is ever taken, then why not put those floating 'deterents' and 'readiness' to action and start search and destroy missions. The only considerable cost increase would be small arms ammunition. Take note that the Enterprise responded to the incident, so if it was capable of response then it was also capable of preemptive offense. Do you know how many warfighting sailors on these ships are bored to tears? How many are itching to put their training to real-world use?

I like the words of one of the members earlier who said that we could all make noise to our congressman and let the country know we are ready to spend money to eradicate this problem. SImply...its the right thing to do!
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Old 23-02-2011, 04:58   #98
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

For those that think the UN is working…here’s their charter…sounds like piracy acts would fall into their charter big time….both stopping it and reducing the reasons behind it.
The Purposes of the United Nations are:
1. To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;
2. To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
3. To achieve international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character, and in promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion; and
4. To be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in the attainment of these common ends.

I agree with the posters that the likely solution for slower and or smaller vessels is a convoy system. The protection afforded and if the pirates were forced to attack convoys, law enforcement would have a much better chance of detection and destruction that I’m guessing would mirror the ultimate demise of U-boats in WWII.
If you didn’t participate in the convoy system…then you take your chances and are outside the protections of even diplomatic efforts to a degree (ie you are farther down the food chain of being helped).
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Old 23-02-2011, 05:29   #99
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

"We know that there are no legitimate exports from Somalia."

They had a 5 billion dollar GDP in '10. They average 270 million in exports a year.
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Old 23-02-2011, 05:33   #100
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodchuck View Post
"We know that there are no legitimate exports from Somalia."

They had a 5 billion dollar GDP in '10. They average 270 million in exports a year.
Didn't just yesterday they export 13 pirates to the US?
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Old 23-02-2011, 06:13   #101
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

Whats the UN?
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Old 23-02-2011, 06:23   #102
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozskipper View Post
The international laws of the high seas.
PREAMBLE TO THE UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA
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Although the United States helped shape the UNCLOS Convention and its subsequent revisions, and though it signed the 1994 Agreement on Implementation, it has not ratified the Convention.

FWIW: Only the United States and Somalia have failed to ratify the Convention on the Rights of the Child, the most widely and rapidly ratified human rights treaty in history.
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Old 23-02-2011, 06:34   #103
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

BlueWaterSail post #94 is the perfect passive/aggressive solution. All roads to a peaceful solution are with the pirates. The costs of equipping boats as he suggests would be minimal compared to the alternatives. The pirates would be going home empty handed every time and money for further operations would rapidly become scarce. The only boats left open to easy attack should be Q-boats. These were vessels (cruisers or commercial in this instance) that looked normal but were in fact heavily armed designed to sink German submarines. In this case, substitute pirate vessels for subs.

The ball would be in their court and it wouldn't take long before they realized that they didn't want to play with Kobe and Lebron any longer. I know the mods here don't like talk of violence and I thank them for letting this thread go on. When folk are killed violence becomes a necessary part of the equation. If we could get world leaders and the pirates to read this thread and some solutions offered the problem would cease to exist.

As for the existing boats and hostages, make them a package deal. Pay the ransom one last time from some international monetary fund. When all boats, ships and personnel are freed go in and get the money. I'm certain that we learned quite a lot from the Blackhawk down scenario and I really doubt that we would be so passive in our quest to recover the money.
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Old 23-02-2011, 07:15   #104
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
For those that think the UN is working….
I'll be one of those

The UN is doing exactly what the international community wants - therefore how can it not be working properly? I don't think they ever issued a Guarantee to bring about World Peace . and have no capacity of their own to impose it.

The disagreement that many have with the UN is that it is not doing enough (ignoring those for a minute who think the UN does too much ).........but you have to understand that the UN is YOU (and me) via our own National Governments - it is not some mythical force for good in the Universe (I think the Pope has that market cornered )......the UN is simply one avenue (albeit a complex one) through whom things can get done. If the folks around the table all want something done. Mostly they don't really want something done, just to look like they are trying / have done something (and have someone with no guns to blame - like the UN).

It's not a perfect world. But a bit of understanding of how it works (rather than confusing that with how would like it to be) would probably help folks.
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Old 23-02-2011, 07:32   #105
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

Piracy in the region will only cease when the risk of freebooting far exceeds the rewards. Unfortunately the solution offends the liberal sensibilities of both governments and western societies. Therefore, the problem will remain and most likely spread as a cancer to other regions.
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