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Alecadi · 16-09-2013, 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by colemj

So the short answer is that the boats accelerate so quickly that the apparent wind never gets around them and is always in front of them.

Mark

Thank you Mark
So they have to start always upwind from a full stop and get enough speed to rely on a strong apparent headwind?
The true wind position relative to the sail has no importance anymore?

Alecadi · 16-09-2013, 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alecadi

Thank you Mark
So they have to start always upwind from a full stop and get enough speed to rely on a strong apparent headwind?
The true wind position relative to the sail has no importance anymore?

Mark
Does that mean that with a wind of 35 kts on the stern the boat will not be able to move very fast? Having no apparent wind?

thomm225 · 16-09-2013, 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alecadi

Does that mean that with a wind of 35 kts on the stern the boat will not be able to move very fast? Having no apparent wind?

They would have to sail dead downwind for that to happen, and they would never do that. They would sail high as usual then head low as the apparent wind came around forward which would be in the first few seconds after rounding the windward mark.

Only slow monohulls sail dead downwind in a race because they cannot usually get up enough speed to compensate for distance sailed if they go higher on the downwind leg. Some monohulls do have speed and can go at a higher angle though.

I think the J27 sails downwind at 90 degrees apparent same as a Hobie 16 catamaran.

OldFrog75 · 16-09-2013, 07:55

I wish everyone would stop referring to Oracle as "Team USA" or worse, "The Americans". It's "Team Oracle" or "Oracle Team Ellison" for crying out loud.

This isn't the Kiwis beating the USA; it's the Kiwis beating other Kiwis with an Australian at the helm. Calling it Team USA is giving American Sailing a bad name.

The TV announcers are the biggest culprits of perpetuating this inaccuracy, so I sent them an email requesting that they stop doing it. I guess they didn't read it

PS. I get it that with a boat full of Americans Oracle might lose even worse but at least it would be accurate to refer to it as Team USA. All professional athletes return to their country of origin for the Olympics. AC athletes should as well. Just my 2 cents.

thomm225 · 16-09-2013, 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldFrog75

I wish everyone would stop referring to Oracle as "Team USA" or worse, "The Americans". It's "Team Oracle" or "Oracle Team Ellison" for crying out loud.

This isn't the Kiwis beating the USA; it's the Kiwis beating other Kiwis with an Australian at the helm. Calling it Team USA is giving American Sailing a bad name.

The TV announcers are the biggest culprits of perpetuating this inaccuracy, so I sent them an email requesting that they stop doing it. I guess they didn't read it

PS. I get it that with a boat full of Americans Oracle might lose even worse but at least it would be accurate to refer to it as Team USA. All professional athletes return to their country of origin for the Olympics. AC athletes should as well. Just my 2 cents.

I think it's called professional sports. Are all the Dallas Cowboys ...........cowboys from Dallas? Is the World Series a world event? Is the American League.........

SVNeko · 16-09-2013, 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomm225

I think it's called professional sports. Are all the Dallas Cowboys ...........cowboys from Dallas? Is the World Series a world event? Is the American League.........

Yea, but the Deed of Cup specifically designates the event to be a friendly competition among nations. To me that implies national teams and some level of required nationality of members, a bit like the Olympics. I think having such a requirement would help to slow the corporate feel of it.

OldFrog75 · 16-09-2013, 08:27

It would be more appropriate for the spectators to wave Oracle banners or flags with a picture of Larry Ellison than the Stars and Stripes.

**Paul Elliott** · 16-09-2013, 09:07

At least on paper, it's the Golden Gate Yacht Club that won, and is now defending the Americas Cup. Ellison represents them. Ellison was born and raised in the USA, Oracle is the company he started, and Team Oracle is based in the USA.

And the boat's crew are hired guns. Until the race rules are changed, this will continue to be the case.

And imagine all the fuss if instead of Ellison, it were the United States taxpayers that were paying for the boat/team?

thomm225 · 16-09-2013, 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVNeko

Yea, but the Deed of Cup specifically designates the event to be a friendly competition among nations. To me that implies national teams and some level of required nationality of members, a bit like the Olympics. I think having such a requirement would help to slow the corporate feel of it.

For the 2003 event, Team New Zealand as the holder of the America's Cup, in consultation with Prada, the Challenger of Record, removed the nationality rule that stipulated that all of the crew members must be nationals of the challenging syndicate.

I believe Team Alinghi was representing the Nation of Switzerland in the 2007 America's Cup. This kinda of thing isn't new to the America's Cup.

Terry Hutchinson, an American, was tactician aboard ETNZ in the 2007 Americas Cup.

colemj · 16-09-2013, 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomm225

This kinda of thing isn't new to the America's Cup.

But this America's Cup has catamarans and Larry Ellison, so any comparisons to past series, other teams or actual facts are not welcomed here...

Mark

SVNeko · 16-09-2013, 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomm225

For the 2003 event, Team New Zealand as the holder of the America's Cup, in consultation with Prada, the Challenger of Record, removed the nationality rule that stipulated that all of the crew members must be nationals of the challenging syndicate.

I believe Team Alinghi was representing the Nation of Switzerland in the 2007 America's Cup. This kinda of thing isn't new to the America's Cup.

Terry Hutchinson, an American, was tactician aboard ETNZ in the 2007 Americas Cup.

According to wikipedia, Alinghi did this in 2007. In 2003, the Kiwis on the Swiss team had to take up residence in Switzerland to qualify. Maybe its time to put some kind of requirement back in.

**Paul Elliott** · 16-09-2013, 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVNeko

According to wikipedia, Alinghi did this in 2007. In 2003, the Kiwis on the Swiss team had to take up residence in Switzerland to qualify. Maybe its time to put some kind of requirement back in.

Why, exactly?