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Old 22-08-2013, 20:37   #151
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
All you've proved with the above is...
Dickheads exist outside of Congress and the Senate...
Note... no Ad Hominem there...
No argument from me on that.

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Old 22-08-2013, 20:45   #152
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Re: Twenty Knots

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You know it wouldn't be so bad if they were racing W32s. Even in 30kts the crews could be forced to cook a meal during the race and be judged on it when they return. You know, sort of FoodNetwork meets SailTV.
That would make it more interesting!

You know, thinking about the whole hypothetical W32 AC thing, the W32 was designed and built to a specific range of conditions. Really no different than AC boats (or RTW racers, for that matter).

The difference is that the windspeeds for a W32 race would have a speed floor instead of a ceiling!

And for the W32 owners I may unwittingly be offending, please substitute the boat of your choice instead.

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Old 22-08-2013, 23:43   #153
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Re: Twenty Knots

Watching the sailors on those racing Cats, And the acceleration they most definately have,

Its like watching a person that has never ridden a big, very fast motor cycle for the first time,
They are trying to control unbelievable power which they are not used to, Teething Problems,

I would Love to see them actually sailing flat out across a long stretch of water,
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Old 25-08-2013, 14:34   #154
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Re: Twenty Knots

I consider it a travesty that this is what has become of the once-proud America’s Cup. That competition was previously hailed as the hallmark of excellence in the sport of sailing. It was the pinnacle of prestige.

It has now been reduced to a game of semantics between an anemic field of merely 4 “competitors”. Gone is the once-robust field of competition that kept the race for the cup vibrant & interesting. Gone is the ability for the cup’s winner to call himself a world champion or even world class. From this point forward, the best that he can hope to be known as is the best of 4 competitors who aren’t even able to sail in winds that a feisty J-24 racer might actually enjoy encountering. That is a vanus triumphus at best.

If these well-heeled snobs want to race their overpriced play toys, let them form a new class & have at it in whatever way pleases them best. I find it rude, overbearing & disrespectful that they have chosen to foist these new contraptions upon a historically significant event like the America’s Cup in an attempt to buy themselves some credibility. Australia’s first wing keel was a questionable transgression in the design limits of this class. These things we are now seeing, are a different animal that belongs in a different cage.

The people in charge of this race have now ensured that going forward, it will be an impotent competition between a very few coddled individuals who have purchased the ability to avoid any real competition from the vast majority of those in this world who may actually be better sailors. We now have 4 very big fish in a very small pond. I will choose to follow those who race in the ocean of competition, rather than this small pond event.

If I was invited to crew on one of those new boats, I would decline the offer. If I was given the choice of being a race officer in the upcoming America’s Cup competition or being a race officer in a regatta that boasted a dozen Opti’s, I would choose the Opti’s. The 8-year olds in those little 77-pound, spritt-rigged dinks seem to have more respect for the sport.

The America’s Cup has always been a rich man’s game, but now it has degenerated into nothing more than a competition to see who can spend more & who can exert more political influence to get the rules bent in his favor. There is noting left here to hold my interest. My eyes will be elsewhere when these people race.
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Old 25-08-2013, 14:52   #155
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Re: Twenty Knots

pbiJim,

I respect your opinion and am not arguing it.

I do point out that the sentiments and statements in your post have been made many, many times during the America's Cup competition since the 1800's.

For instance, only the rarified rich could afford a J-class boat, and only 4 of them ever showed up for defender trials in an AC campaign. Often it was fewer.

The New York yacht club used its political influence to "make up" rules that ensured the whole thing was swung strongly in their favor. It took Australia's winged keel and highly trained athletes to bring some resemblance of fair play back to the competition.

I have already pointed out that the wind speed limits imposed in this year's AC races are the same ones imposed in past year's mono AC races.

So the "people in charge" of the racing a century ago ensured that it will always be "a competition between a very few coddled individuals who have purchased the ability to avoid any actual competition from the vast majority of those in this world who may actually be better sailors".

My only disagreement in that point is that this year's sailors really are some of the best match racing sailors in the world and are rarified athletes who have earned their positions. It isn't fair to them to say otherwise just because you disagree with their ultimate rich bosses or the decisions of an organization they have no say in.

Just some perspective...

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Old 25-08-2013, 14:59   #156
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Re: Twenty Knots

BTW, even for those here who hate this AC race and can barely see through their rage, I urge you to watch the AC45 Youth races Sept. 1-5.

These will be fleet races of 10 AC45 boats sailed by the top amateur youth sailors in the world. These athletes have competed and trained very hard for the few positions available on the boats, and all boats are crewed only by nationals of the country represented.

Yes, they are catamarans and yes, they have winged sails (but no foils) and yes, it will be short courses in front of crowds of common people...

...but it is exciting and countries are actually represented by their best national youth sailors campaigning on shoe-string budgets - think of it like a mini Olympics.

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Old 25-08-2013, 15:19   #157
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Re: Twenty Knots

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pbiJim,

I respect your opinion and am not arguing it.
I wasn't trying to be argumentative. I wasn't targeting anything you posted in an attempt to discredit it. I was merely stating my opinion.

Regards,
Jim
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Old 25-08-2013, 15:19   #158
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by pbiJim View Post
I consider it a travesty that this is what has become of the once-proud America’s Cup. That competition was previously hailed as the hallmark of excellence in the sport of sailing. It was the pinnacle of prestige.

It has now been reduced to a game of semantics between an anemic field of merely 4 “competitors”. Gone is the once-robust field of competition that kept the race for the cup vibrant & interesting. Gone is the ability for the cup’s winner to call himself a world champion or even world class. From this point forward, the best that he can hope to be known as is the best of 4 competitors who aren’t even able to sail in winds that a feisty J-24 racer might actually enjoy encountering. That is a vanus triumphus at best.

If these well-heeled snobs want to race their overpriced play toys, let them form a new class & have at it in whatever way pleases them best. I find it rude, overbearing & disrespectful that they have chosen to foist these new contraptions upon a historically significant event like the America’s Cup in an attempt to buy themselves some credibility. Australia’s first wing keel was a questionable transgression in the design limits of this class. These things we are now seeing, are a different animal that belongs in a different cage.

The people in charge of this race have now ensured that going forward, it will be an impotent competition between a very few coddled individuals who have purchased the ability to avoid any real competition from the vast majority of those in this world who may actually be better sailors. We now have 4 very big fish in a very small pond. I will choose to follow those who race in the ocean of competition, rather than this small pond event.

If I was invited to crew on one of those new boats, I would decline the offer. If I was given the choice of being a race officer in the upcoming America’s Cup competition or being a race officer in a regatta that boasted a dozen Opti’s, I would choose the Opti’s. The 8-year olds in those little 77-pound, spritt-rigged dinks seem to have more respect for the sport.

The America’s Cup has always been a rich man’s game, but now it has degenerated into nothing more than a competition to see who can spend more & who can exert more political influence to get the rules bent in his favor. There is noting left here to hold my interest. My eyes will be elsewhere when these people race.
The fact is that the America's Cup boats have been copying the catamaran racing sailor's boats for years. They finally realized that they were sailing in the dark ages.

In the 90's, they finally started to copy the sailplan of the average racing catamaran....................the Tornado which had been sailing with this sailplan since 1967

Big main, small jib.................check this video where the crew is running the boat with downhaul, mast rotation, and sheeting the main. Why is the crew running the boat?

Because to turn the rudder slows the boat speed! Btw, the Tornado all rigged weighs about 350-400lbs and probably has about the same sail area as your average 30' monohull.

You see, to sail a catamaran in a race and win you have to be near perfect on your sheeting, weight distribution, sail selection, and so on. It's not like racing at 5 knots.

Also, you actually have to be in shape to race a cat. Maybe this is part of the problem with the old way. And for the record, I've been hit by 30 knot gusts on my boats, Hobie 16, NACRA 6.0, and NACRA F-17 and had no problem. Plus, if you do flip, you can lie between the hulls on the tramp and rest a while.



The above is the Tornado. Below is the latest that folks are racing today. It's the Viper F-16 and probably weighs maybe 200lbs.
And it can be raced one up or two up.

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Old 25-08-2013, 15:25   #159
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
only the rarified rich could afford a J-class boat, and only 4 of them ever showed up for defender trials in an AC campaign. Often it was fewer.

The New York yacht club used its political influence to "make up" rules that ensured the whole thing was swung strongly in their favor.
I agree that in the past, this sort of abuse was sometimes excessive. I now feel that it has risen to a level that is wholly intolerable & dissolves my interest in the competition.
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Old 25-08-2013, 15:37   #160
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Re: Twenty Knots

I guess my point was that this sort of abuse has DEFINED the AC since almost the beginning. You just finally got fed up with it!

Sort of like gradually acquiring sensitivity to poison ivy or epoxy until you can no longer have any contact with it?

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Old 25-08-2013, 15:42   #161
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Re: Twenty Knots

Sort of difficult to get fed up with a series that is defined by its lack of races. Is it even a real race with only two boats? And many times, the "race" is defined by which boat breaks first.

I agree the AC has been plagued by politics and controversy, but this latest season is just a real bummer.
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Old 25-08-2013, 16:07   #162
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Is it even a real race with only two boats? .
It's always just two boats. Here is a nice video of one of the races from 2007 Finals. Paul Cayard is one of the commentators. We do know who Cayard is right? Awesome start for the slower boat Emirates New Zealand btw............

Also the leeward boat on starboard tack has right of way in case one is wondering what is happening in the prestart. A foul here, and the race is over.

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Old 25-08-2013, 16:30   #163
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
All you've proved with the above is...
Dickheads exist outside of Congress and the Senate...
Note... no Ad Hominem there...
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Old 25-08-2013, 16:31   #164
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Re: Twenty Knots

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The America's Cup currently makes as much sense and entertainment as the American Gun Laws... ZERO...
amen +1
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Old 25-08-2013, 17:03   #165
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
BTW, even for those here who hate this AC race and can barely see through their rage, I urge you to watch the AC45 Youth races Sept. 1-5.

These will be fleet races of 10 AC45 boats sailed by the top amateur youth sailors in the world. These athletes have competed and trained very hard for the few positions available on the boats, and all boats are crewed only by nationals of the country represented.

Yes, they are catamarans and yes, they have winged sails (but no foils) and yes, it will be short courses in front of crowds of common people...

...but it is exciting and countries are actually represented by their best national youth sailors campaigning on shoe-string budgets - think of it like a mini Olympics.

Mark
I agree this will be worth watching...
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