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Old 30-12-2015, 04:41   #436
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WindwardPrinces View Post
I'd implore everyone to be civil, even if you disagree with someone's comments, actions, or tenor.

Probably everyone has a point, even if it's poorly expressed.
Out of 445 posts in the thread... This one is my favorite...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
When people post for the sake of ruffling feathers (flaming), not replying is usually the best way to deal with it. Just a suggestion, since giving people exactly what they want will rarely make stem stop doing what they're doing ... just makes you look bad too.

....
Of course I like this one a lot too !


----

Tragic circumstances are often the birthplace of emotion...
Emotion often matures into passion...
Passion creates the desire for others to share the same feeling...
Resistance evolves from others not following the same path...
And resistance often matures to conflict...

Hopefully we can all simply work and wish for the same end goal without conflict...
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Old 30-12-2015, 05:34   #437
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by kmacdonald View Post
That should open your pockets.

When was the last time you handed a homeless guy 5 bucks? A warm coat? A meal?


Your getting old when you would rather tea and a soft bunk instead of tequila and a late night.
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Old 30-12-2015, 05:53   #438
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
I find it amazing that after 27 pages of posts that the possibility of theft has been completely eliminated by most on this Forum with the exception of Rustic Charm(did I miss someone?). An unattended boat in a open anchorage with no one in sight for most of the day and next to an island that is not that greatly different from Nassau in regards to poverty and crime and no one considers theft? This boat was easy pickings for a thief and could be en route to anywhere in the Caribbean with little or no possibility of ever being recovered again. This, unfortunately for the OP, appears to be a hard lesson earned with the loss of his vessel. Only luck will return his boat at this point. My sincere regrets for your sad loss.
It is not a boat locals would want. They are all fishermen at West End. And, if you'd seen the caliber of boats that put in at WE, you wouldn't for a second suggest that a foreigner would be interested. If Dagny had been in the marina, it would have been the smallest boat by 11 feet (mine being the next smallest) and one of the few sailboats.

I think theft can be all-but ruled out.
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Old 30-12-2015, 06:00   #439
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by kmacdonald View Post
^ WOW, it just gets more and more bizarre. Even if the boat was located, there is still the issue of retrieving it. Gil has NO RESOURCES to do that. I don't understand how you think all these organizations are going to drop everything and help poor old Gil. Wake up!!!!!!!!
Gil is just a guy in a bad situation. I am perhaps the only person here who has met him personally since the tragic loss of his boat and can attest to this with first hand knowledge.

The irony, Mr. K, is that people like you, who immediately assume the worst about his fellow men, incline me to think the worst about humanity. I must remind myself that you are (only) one of the one-third of the population that is more or less in a constant state of paranoid lunacy. A dangerous one third, to be sure, but still only among that 33 percent.
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Old 30-12-2015, 06:01   #440
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
The odds of a sailor hitting this drifting small sailboat are so minuscule as to border on insignificance. You sir are ratiometrically challenged. There is about the same risk to other sailors as being hit by a meteor.
+1
same goes for containers, btw.
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Old 30-12-2015, 06:06   #441
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by brownoarsman View Post
The US market must be much easier than Europe. When I went to the Bahamas on a 28' last year, I just called the company, told them I wanted an insured value of $8k, paid about $749 (full load: comprehensive, collision, liability, towing, 125 mile offshore, etc.), and took off.

Ocean crossing is a different ball game, but a jaunt to the Bahamas is easily covered. I asked Gil earlier if he had checked with his insurance co on the loss since he mentioned he had some kind of S&R insurance, and it's best to get your documentation in-line early.


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I don't want to speak for Gil, but he did tell me that he did not have insurance on the boat. So, please, trolls, cross "insurance scam" off your list of possibilities.

The principle of parsimony suggests this is precisely what it has been described by Gil as, i.e., a guy in a boat whose anchor dragged. There is a very deep shelf that drops off suddenly just offshore at West End. If a boat dragged, it would have no hope of resetting if it went west or northwest. The wind was out of the southeast that day, as I recall.
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Old 30-12-2015, 06:23   #442
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Some people can become so driven to be brutally honest that they lose perspective on when such advice is not strictly necessary or helpful. Some brutal honesty delivered by a trusted friend or mentor can be the push a person needs to effect a positive change, but some people enjoy being brutally honest simply for the brutality itself (enjoy the brutality more than the honesty).

Yes, the feedback which you offered may well have been factually correct, but there were better ways to deliver it. Indeed, sometimes difficult and uncomfortable things need to be said (and honesty in saying them is very important!). Usually, however, they don't require saying, or (at least) can be said with tact, sensitivity, and kindness.
A magnificent post, Gord.

"but some people enjoy being brutally honest simply for the brutality itself (enjoy the brutality more than the honesty)."

Let's just say that the pretense of honesty is for many people just a good excuse for being nasty.
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Old 30-12-2015, 06:25   #443
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
I don't want to speak for Gil, but he did tell me that he did not have insurance on the boat. So, please, trolls, cross "insurance scam" off your list of possibilities.



The principle of parsimony suggests this is precisely what it has been described by Gil as, i.e., a guy in a boat whose anchor dragged. There is a very deep shelf that drops off suddenly just offshore at West End. If a boat dragged, it would have no hope of resetting if it went west or northwest. The wind was out of the southeast that day, as I recall.

Not trolling, just bringing up helpful alternatives in case the boat can't be recovered (which would be pursuing an insurance claim, if able) and responding to some misconceptions about the US near-shore insurance market. Best of luck, Gil.


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Old 30-12-2015, 06:26   #444
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
A magnificent post, Gord.

"but some people enjoy being brutally honest simply for the brutality itself (enjoy the brutality more than the honesty)."

Let's just say that the pretense of honesty is for many people just a good excuse for being nasty.
I "second" the magnificence !!!
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Old 30-12-2015, 06:30   #445
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brownoarsman View Post
Not trolling, just bringing up helpful alternatives in case the boat can't be recovered (which would be pursuing an insurance claim, if able) and responding to some misconceptions about the US near-shore insurance market. Best of luck, Gil.

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Sorry, that wasn't directed at you.
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Old 30-12-2015, 06:32   #446
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
Sorry, that wasn't directed at you.

Apologies for my misconception that it was. Thanks for helping Gil out. I received a bit of help myself as a singlehander in the Bahamas on a small boat, and it's people like you that make the cruising community a great one!


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Old 30-12-2015, 06:34   #447
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
A magnificent post, Gord.



"but some people enjoy being brutally honest simply for the brutality itself (enjoy the brutality more than the honesty)."



Let's just say that the pretense of honesty is for many people just a good excuse for being nasty.

Well said.
BTW, some of the prior posts are clearly pushing the boundaries of the CF rules, specifically the 'be nice' rule. Please keep that in mind before pressing 'enter'
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Old 30-12-2015, 06:41   #448
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

On a positive note, many years ago when my ship was part of the NATO Standing Naval Force, our RN cohort found a yacht adrift. The story as I remember it, was the boat was stolen from a marina (drug or human smuggling, or joy-ride, all conjecture) and left to drift. The RN put a young officer and a couple sailors (all experienced sail-boaters) on board with water and provisions, and they sailed it back to the nearest Brit protectorate in the Caribbean. The boat was apparently insured, and we had some discussions around the dinner table about salvage law, but I don't know if servants of Her Majesty's service would be able to collect. We never discussed what would happen if there was no insurance and the owners could not pay a salvage claim, but I somehow doubt any government would put too much effort into extracting blood from a stone - poor optics and all.

I don't know if either of the US's two naval forces would be as eager to similarly jump on a training opportunity and bestow a temporary command on one of its JOs, but I also don't think they'd sink it on the spot. While it used to be de rigeur, a few navies have found themselves on the wrong end of lawsuits after using "derelict" ships for target practice. It's still somebody's property.

A lot of boats make the jump to Fernandina Beach or Jacksonville from Charleston or points north, so I'm hopeful some cruiser will stumble across Dagny. Hopefully they will have the crew and means to sail her into port. Hopefully the word is out among the community and everyone is keeping an especially good lookout.
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Old 30-12-2015, 07:22   #449
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Some people can become so driven to be brutally honest that they lose perspective on when such advice is not strictly necessary or helpful. Some brutal honesty delivered by a trusted friend or mentor can be the push a person needs to effect a positive change, but some people enjoy being brutally honest simply for the brutality itself (enjoy the brutality more than the honesty).

Yes, the feedback which you offered may well have been factually correct, but there were better ways to deliver it. Indeed, sometimes difficult and uncomfortable things need to be said (and honesty in saying them is very important!). Usually, however, they don't require saying, or (at least) can be said with tact, sensitivity, and kindness.

Outstanding post! Well said!
So fitting for so many comments I have seen in some of the hostile dialogs in some threads on this forum and others.
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Old 30-12-2015, 07:57   #450
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

There have been many comments regarding what some believe to be a very irresponsible plan in sailing off with few financial resources.
That caused me to remember a man that I had met and spent some time working with at Coast Chandlery is SoCal back in the 80's.
The fellows name is Fred Boynton. In the 70's he was a teacher living in Boston. He fell upon hard times when, as I recall, he lost his job and his wife left him. After a time he ended up living aboard his boat, a Virtue 25, and down to his last $100 dollars when he thought "what have I got to loose" and sailed away alone. He sailed back into Boston Harbor 10 years latter, with $100 in his pocket, having circled the globe.
My guess is that most people would have called him foolish when he left but called him courageous upon return.
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