The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

[sailorboy1]

I paid off my boat the other day. So I'm now debt free except for the current balance of my rewards credit card that I use for almost everything and pay off each month and take the rewards cash. Being frugal was how I got to this point in 8 years so that at 56 I own a good cruising boat, have cash and savings, am debt free and are now out cruising. My monthly budget is still $3000. Frugal doesn't mean you live cheap, just that you you look for ways to control your spending. Lots of rich people are frugal to the point of being tightwads, maybe that is how they got rich.

Like most things boat, most of this thread has really become about different degrees of being a snob.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I paid off my boat the other day. So I'm now debt free except for the current balance of my rewards credit card that I use for almost everything and pay off each month and take the rewards cash. Being frugal was how I got to this point in 8 years so that at 56 I own a good cruising boat, have cash and savings, am debt free and are now out cruising. My monthly budget is still $3000. Frugal doesn't mean you live cheap, just that you you look for ways to control your spending. Lots of rich people are frugal to the point of being tightwads, maybe that is how they got rich.

Like most things boat, most of this thread has really become about different degrees of being a snob.

Naah mate.. just like winding em up then watch em go..

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

I believe Ken drives a Ferrari. Jes sayin'.

How do you suppose Ken was able save up and buy a Ferrari at age 25 many years ago in 1984? He didn't find it in a dumpster.

I agree with Sailorboy on post #301. Being cheap and being frugal are two different things, but many on this thread seem to confuse or combine the two meanings. Being frugal can be a means to an end, and not necessarily a cheap, barren lifestyle.

We have a few nice things we enjoy, BUT... we don't own a house which I consider to be a bottomless money pit and a lifestyle/employment anchor.

[Travelnik]

I used to complain about the cost of car repairs, until I met a man who'd never even owned a Porsche!

[weavis]

Saved me writing a different version..

Originally Posted by weavis

In reading a lot of the threads on CF, I see that people continue to mix up full-time cruisers and having a boat for part-time use. This thread was to encourage individuals who wish to go boating at weekends and holidays to take the plunge by being careful in their choices and only getting what is really necessary for safe boating and economical use.

There is obviously a difference in having a boat for full-time cruising and live aboard both in cost and equipment and having one for the purposes as mentioned above. That said, it is still possible to be frugal in choosing a vessel at the best value for money within your price range.

For me as an individual with an average income, I understand the principle of being restricted in my choices by an aversion to borrowing money, and by what cash is available without having to sell assets. In reading yachting magazines and online forums, one would think that the minimum starting price for a well found yacht or catamaran is over $200,000!

This is fine if you have the credit stream or cash to enter the market at that price point, but for the rest of us this is just a pipe dream. For the working person myself included, I see boating and sailing as an enjoyable hobby much the same as caravanning or using an RV. To this end the vessel has to meet certain safety standards and equipment needs to be sufficient for any unforeseen event. It is not a requirement of owning a boat to have the latest electronics or water maker or any of the myriad newfangled gadgets that make life easier on board.

last week a friend of mine purchased a Catalac 8m for £16,000. The survey stated the boat had structural integrity, and recommended replacing a couple of standing rigging wires, a rewire and the resealing of a couple of windows. Yesterday, I went to see the vessel on the hard and to drop off some filters and I had picked up for his outboard, and was amazed at how much better it looked for a good scrubbing and cleaning and buffing of the hulls. The new owner is a carpenter/builder by trade, and already is beginning to transform the interior with the modification of the existing floor plan and new wood replacing some of the aged panels. One of his plans is to replace the ceiling padding with lightweight wood panels in the design of his own making.

John is quite an experience sailor. Combined with his knowledge of woodworking, is a tip he passed on to me that he was not going to varnish the ceiling wood. He was going to liquid finish it with a sealer, and this would prevent condensation forming and dripping down. I just passed this tip onto you because it may be helpful.

For myself I am happy with the vessel that does not require huge sails and the necessity to go forward all the time to deal with sail issues. I like sails that can be pulled up, and reduced as the wind rises from the cockpit. Replacing the sails is much cheaper as well. Rigging costs are cheaper, line runs are cheaper, and mast lengths are usually smaller. There is also the benefit of being able to lower the mast single-handedly and quickly if required.

A couple of years ago when I was looking at the Gemini 105, I was really impressed by the layout and the space. I still think it is a lot of space for a single person or a couple with room for guests. However this is my personal view as another commentor on cruisers forum was less than impressed with the space for himself and his wife. He thought it very small for a cruising cat. I guess it comes down to expectations and usage. It basically is what you are prepared to deal with and whether or not compactness is something you can live with. I come from the school of thought that suggests finding a vessel of the minimum size you are happy with, and can control single-handed with ease, is better than an oversized vessel that leaves you anxious.

A lot of experienced sailors on CF discussed the merits and problems associated with different vessels and give their opinions as to why they would not have a certain boat. Invariably these comments come from long distance sailors, and whilst I read their comments carefully and note them, they actually do the frugal sailor a power of good when it comes to purchasing one of these vessels which are available for a good price and will only be used for local and coastal work. However and for example, I allowed myself to be talked out of purchasing the Gemini 105 because it was a "lightly built" and not very sturdy sea vessel. The reality was that for the use I wanted it, the vessel was perfect, not to mention it has crossed the Atlantic and Pacific many times.

So for those of us wanting to sail on a limited income at weekends, we must be prepared to examine each and every vessel on its own merits and compare that to the usage we want out of it.

Sailing is an expensive hobby but it need not be if we choose it not to be.

[a64pilot]

My Father was one of the most frugal men I have ever known, he was young in the depression era and watched his Father essentially lose everything. Family took him in when they had to, and an Uncle helped him obtain his education.
Living frugally in a time where I believe you could make and save more money than now he accrued quite a bit of wealth, but if you met him, usually you would he lived in a trailer somewhere, except at work where he dressed professionally.
I remember one time when we were shopping for parts in a junk yard and the owner got to feeling sorry for him

Anyway, you do not have to be poor to be frugal, but perhaps if you are poor, you are more motivated, but what does poor mean actually?

I have found in life that the vast majority of people who exist to show off their possessions, in fact are poor, in that if everything were liquidated today, they would have nothing except a huge debt. This describes the man I work for now, and almost all consider him a rich man. Such is society.


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[Sea Dreaming]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

My Father was one of the most frugal men I have ever known, he was young in the depression era and watched his Father essentially lose everything. Family took him in when they had to, and an Uncle helped him obtain his education.
Living frugally in a time where I believe you could make and save more money than now he accrued quite a bit of wealth, but if you met him, usually you would he lived in a trailer somewhere, except at work where he dressed professionally.
I remember one time when we were shopping for parts in a junk yard and the owner got to feeling sorry for him

Anyway, you do not have to be poor to be frugal, but perhaps if you are poor, you are more motivated, but what does poor mean actually?

I have found in life that the vast majority of people who exist to show off their possessions, in fact are poor, in that if everything were liquidated today, they would have nothing except a huge debt. This describes the man I work for now, and almost all consider him a rich man. Such is society.


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I've been truly "poor" for most of my life. The things I take for granted now we're just wishes 10 years ago. Poor is always making choices between one thing or another, robbing Peter to pay paul. You know it's not smart. You know it's keeping you in a cycle that is very very difficult to get out of. But when you are at the low end of the stick, you don't actually have options. Options for a certain segment is an American myth created by those who have never truly been poor. Worse, you are in a position were you don't associate with those whom can give you a better perspective tHan you have right now.
When you are truly poor there is a mind set that is self defeating but you can't recognize it because every day seems like survival. I could go on and on about real poverty.
I know a few people condemn those who have been or are impoverished. Instead I wish everyone could experience the emotional destruction, pain and uncertainty that being truly poor in a wealthy country can bring. Empathy is needed. Those who have never been there can teach those who are there. Not how to budget. Being poor you can budget. Not how to save for wants, being poor you know how to save. What you have to teach the poor is how to rethink where they are. Poverty can be temporary but it's also a generational experience and passes from parents to children simply because t h e poor don't believe there is a way out.
Sorry for the stream of consciousness writing.
Love you all

[Kenomac]

The (Most) Frugal Sailor.

According to the prevailing opinion on this forum. Awesome.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

The (Most) Frugal Sailor.

According to the prevailing opinion on this forum. Awesome.

Ken, Ken Ken That sailor is a go now, go small sailor not a frugal sailor. Besides he's not frugal with that fancy smacy umbrella. Gee a piece of blue tarp would make him frugal, er cheap.

So am I cheap or frugal. Lets see. I purchased a RV stove 2 years ago for 25% of a Marine stove and it cooks far better then the spendy marine stove too. That is frugal.

No, one does not need to be cheap to be frugal. However if one is at the lower end of the social economical bell curve then being Frugal means stretching the dollar a tad. Where someone with deep pockets will spend $1200 on a new marine stove and then complain about how expensive boat parts are, I would for the same $$$, buy a new stove, a set of house batteries and a new anchor. Been there done that. That to me is being a tad more frugal then getting 2% back.

I also shop thrift stores where I can find $100 jeans and $80 blouses for $5 each. In many cases unused. Is that cheap or frugal. I guess it depends on how much money one has.

[Mike OReilly]

There's a fine line between frugal, cheap and miserly. To me, being frugal is not simply about limiting your spending, although that is part of it. It's not just about finding the cheapest deal, although that too is part of frugality.

Frugality, as defined by Webster: "careful about spending money or using things when you do not need to : using money or supplies in a very careful way."

Being frugal is mostly about understanding wants vs needs, and expending your resources (and that includes more than just money) wisely. Maybe we can get back to discussing useful ideas about how us sailors and cruisers can do just that ... no matter what financial level we all find ourselves in.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Being frugal is mostly about understanding wants vs needs, and expending your resources (and that includes more than just money) wisely. Maybe we can get back to discussing useful ideas about how us sailors and cruisers can do just that ... no matter what financial level we all find ourselves in.

I think there is another level to it. That is taking needs and doing careful comparison shopping / selection. Generally if your shopping west marine for a boat part it might or might not be the lowest cost. My personal opinion is west marine is pretty expansive and selection and service has gone down hill in the last 7 years. I do get flares there as I can check the expiration dates.

I do lots of my shopping on line with Amazon and Ebay. It was Ebay where I got my scratch and dent sale stove for $280 including shipping. It was not really scratch and dent, but had been replaced in a new RV with a higher end stove. So I was able to purchase a $600 RV stove for $280 shipping included. Not everyone would be happy with that. Myself I have been very pleased with it. I went that direction because first I could not afford a $1200 stove and second my then 42 year old RV stove had held up quite well. But parts for it were impossible to find.

I also order engine parts on ebay and or amazon, where I got a cast steel discharge elbow for $106, pump seals for $6 and impellers for $28. The prices would have been much higher at a marine store. I pretty much get all my filters and such that way.

[Kenomac]

Sailorchic,

I do exactly the same things as you.

Ken

[captjcook]

I have a good friend from St Vincent...he bought a lot of used tires. I was trying to explain the false economy of this, the time spent etc., the difference between frugal and cheap...he came to a simple understanding...

"Ya know Jim...sometimes when you're cheap, it's gonna cost you a lot of money!"

I can't think of a better way to put it.



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[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

The (Most) Frugal Sailor.

According to the prevailing opinion on this forum. Awesome.

Indeed, that looks like a neat little Gavin Atkins Mouse. He looks like he is having lots of fun. Unlike many I see on big expensive boats. Oarsome!

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by captjcook

I have a good friend from St Vincent...he bought a lot of used tires. I was trying to explain the false economy of this, the time spent etc., the difference between frugal and cheap...he came to a simple understanding...

"Ya know Jim...sometimes when you're cheap, it's gonna cost you a lot of money!"

I can't think of a better way to put it.



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For the last couple of years I've bought used tires for my Dually, I have found a place that gets the take offs from the UPS trucks, excellent G load rated tires for cheap, they are removed with about half the tread remaining, and are re-grooveable tires at that.
I now use my truck so little that I don't wear them out, they need replacing due to age.
Of course my truck is now for sale, know anyone that needs a good Diesel Dually?


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