Taxes, how do they know?

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Aquadome

You are 100% incorrect my good fellow.

Boats registered offshore (the BVI’s, St. Vincent and the Marshall Islands were popular) can bring the boat back to Florida under an annual cruising permit from the U.S. Coast Guard. Under the cruising permit, the boats could remain in Florida, or anywhere else in the U.S. for one year. The boat is then required to leave U.S. waters and enter a foreign port like say a nice cruise to Bimini and then they could then turn around and apply for a new cruising permit for another year etc etc etc ....

The context of the original question was regarding State registrations not foreign.

[Normanskier]

Originally Posted by thinwater

That's pretty much tax evasion (you did not spend measurable time in another state, did not check into another country, and purpose was solely to evade) and is probably also a felony. So yuck it up.

Pay your damn taxes unless you are truly cruising. Who do you expect to pay for stuff? Other people? And why would you expect other people to coach you on how to avoid paying?

You don’t live in New York. They tax you on every possible thing. And they spend it on many, many things that you do not agree with. And the politicians are corrupt as hell. They really need a special prison just for the politicians. A vote is virtually worthless in New York. If I could skip paying sales tax on my boat I would. The only feeble “vote” you have left.

[Aquadome]

Quote:

Originally Posted by*Aquadome*

Buy the boat and register it in an*offshorejurisdiction. Hey Betsy DeVos registered hers in the*Marshall Islands.

FL, and many other States, will want their tax if in the State over specified time (varies by State) regardless of where registered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by*Aquadome*

You are 100% incorrect my good fellow.

Boats registered*offshore*(the BVI’s, St. Vincent and the*Marshall Islands*were popular) can bring the*boat*back to*Florida*under an annual cruising*permit*from the U.S. Coast Guard. Under the cruising*permit, the boats could remain in*Florida, or anywhere else in the U.S. for one year. The*boatis then required to leave U.S. waters and enter a foreign port like say a nice*cruise*to*Bimini*and then they could then turn around and apply for a new cruising permit for another year etc etc etc ....

The context of the original question was regarding State registrations not foreign.

Nice try ... but what you said about states wanting tax if the boat is registered offshore is 100% incorrect and I simply gave a way out to a tax issue. For a couple thousand spent offshore you can avoid any state tax entirely.

[ja62]

please pardon the divergence from the topic here but, Coast Guard Documentation "tonnage"is not determined by a vessel's weight. Gross and Net tonnage are volumetric measurements of a bare hull's internal capacity, a "ton" being measured as 100 cubic feet.

[jeremiason]

Here is everything you every wanted to know about Florida Sales & Use Tax on Boats
http://floridarevenue.com/Forms_libr...t/gt800005.pdf

[wgoodbye]

Originally Posted by carlheintz

Don't underestimate the revenuers. I bought a boat in Maryland, had the port of call changed to Newport CA and within a year got a billing from California for sales tax. The boat had never touched the Pacific, but they argued that it was Californian. After several annoying back and forth conversations, they finally ceased harassing me.

If you change your port of call the USCG will notify the taxing authority of the state that the new port of call is in.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by wgoodbye

If you change your port of call the USCG will notify the taxing authority of the state that the new port of call is in.

Same if you transfer ownership of a Documented vessel.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by carlheintz

Don't underestimate the revenuers. I bought a boat in Maryland, had the port of call changed to Newport CA and within a year got a billing from California for sales tax. The boat had never touched the Pacific, but they argued that it was Californian. After several annoying back and forth conversations, they finally ceased harassing me.

California is infamous for mining the CG data base for boat names and/or city names having anything to do with California. Stay away from any naming plan that could trigger this automatic tax. They can be quite officious.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by lestersails

This thread is proof that if you have a tax law question, you should ask a tax attorney, not a blog.

And you will get as many differing opinions and interpretations of tax laws as the number of tax attorneys you ask. Ditto for tax accountants and / or of asking the Revenue agencies for guidance, e.g, the IRS or State Departments of Revenue.

I learned from the very beginning of my finance career [and in college classes] when it comes to taxation that if you don't defer the revenue, or take the deduction [or credit] you won't receive the benefit of such, albeit yes it might become subsequently disallowed.

On a number of occasions the firms that I have worked for have avoided very significant taxation via the discovery of unintended loopholes, which upon the likes of an IRS review become subjects of tax law revisions so as to close the loopholes typically effective the day after our firm's passage through the loophole. Sometimes it becomes an internal ethically debatable by the senior management and the board of directors as to whether or not the company should take full or partial advantage of the lower taxation method that has become revealed, there being a distinction between paying a fair share and paying little or nothing on earned income. Essentially, as to making the decision on how to proceed with taxation compliance, you end up asking whether you would be proud that your Mom read about the taxation avoidance scheme in her morning newspaper; if the answer is No, then you need to just pay up the higher taxation, even though it would not be legally and technically due. It is quite fun and revealing to bring up what I call the "Mom knows" test when dealing with decisions involving senior management, owners and directors, as it becomes a test of integrity of character and not of money / wealth.

"What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul?" Matthew 16:26 I have written that verse on a white board during a directors meeting before a vote, taking a moment to stand and write such quietly invokes pause and reflection, although at that instance, it did require translation from English to the native tongue of one half the board members that were non English speaking and non-Christian and followed by the expression of the significance of the accredited source, [i.e., the Bible].

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by ja62

please pardon the divergence from the topic here but, Coast Guard Documentation "tonnage"is not determined by a vessel's weight. Gross and Net tonnage are volumetric measurements of a bare hull's internal capacity, a "ton" being measured as 100 cubic feet.

So true. Tonnage is a measure of the cargo-carrying capacity of a ship. The term derives from the taxation paid on tuns or casks of wine. In modern maritime usage, "tonnage" specifically refers to a calculation of the volume or cargo volume of a ship.

But once the vessel is built and loaded, if you want less tonnage you need to open and drink the wine. I'm all in for lightening my ship. It might not sail faster, but it will seem to be faster.

[Epicurean]

So, if you want to buy a foreign boat and import it into the US and are free to move around, what's the cheapest way to legally do it and keep it in the US? That should stir 5 more pages of solid waste.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Epicurean

So, if you want to buy a foreign boat and import it into the US and are free to move around, what's the cheapest way to legally do it and keep it in the US? That should stir 5 more pages of solid waste.

I'll take the bait.

US federal customs duty on the importation of boats will apply depending on from what country of origin the boat is. Presently, the USA does not have customs duty on Canadian or Mexican manufactured boats, at least while NAFTA applies and Trump doesn't go further wackerdoodles with his imposition of tariffs. So purchasing a boat of USA, Canadian or Mexican sourced manufacturing would be a good start to avoid taxation upon importation.

Then keep it in a state, district or territory that does not have sale or use tax on boats or property tax on boats and only has modest registration fees.

So as to avoid sales and use tax just keep sailing between the list below The recommended route and timing of such could become a subject matter of its own posting. As to traversing Montana, Lewis and Clark took a great deal of time to pole their boats up river and to portage the Great Falls when traveling westward to locate and survey just what the heck was "the Louisiana Purchase". It took them much less time to travel eastward headed down stream. But there is the minor issue of having to cross the continental divide on the western portion of the Last Best Place to continue towards Oregon and Alaska or to return back to Delaware and New Hampshire.

Needs confirmation but the five states that apparently don't have any sales or use tax are:
Alaska.
Delaware.
Montana. Yeah, that be my state.
New Hampshire.
Oregon.

Yet there may well be states that do not apply sales or use taxation specifically to boats. The reference below suggests that there are some of relevance.



Reference link: How to avoid paying taxes on your boat...legally! - Answers in Boat Tax Law

A snipet of which specialized subject matter webpage is copied and attached below.

"Below is a table that gives the bare-bones of the state taxes in the East Coast cruising grounds as they exist at the moment (revised 2016). It does not include many defenses, exceptions, exclusions, penalties, interest on late payments, and any number of other important details, nor is it legal advice, but it does provide a rough snapshot of the tax on the purchase of a boat."

I haven't found a similar listing of western states, having been a Californian before a Montanan, I can attest that California has both sales/use tax and property tax.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Montanan

And you will get as many differing opinions and interpretations of tax laws as the number of tax attorneys you ask. Ditto for tax accountants and / or of asking the Revenue agencies for guidance, e.g, the IRS or State Departments of Revenue.

I learned from the very beginning of my finance career [and in college classes] when it comes to taxation that if you don't defer the revenue, or take the deduction [or credit] you won't receive the benefit of such, albeit yes it might become subsequently disallowed.

On a number of occasions the firms that I have worked for have avoided very significant taxation via the discovery of unintended loopholes, which upon the likes of an IRS review become subjects of tax law revisions so as to close the loopholes typically effective the day after our firm's passage through the loophole. Sometimes it becomes an internal ethically debatable by the senior management and the board of directors as to whether or not the company should take full or partial advantage of the lower taxation method that has become revealed, there being a distinction between paying a fair share and paying little or nothing on earned income. Essentially, as to making the decision on how to proceed with taxation compliance, you end up asking whether you would be proud that your Mom read about the taxation avoidance scheme in her morning newspaper; if the answer is No, then you need to just pay up the higher taxation, even though it would not be legally and technically due. It is quite fun and revealing to bring up what I call the "Mom knows" test when dealing with decisions involving senior management, owners and directors, as it becomes a test of integrity of character and not of money / wealth.

"What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul?" Matthew 16:26 I have written that verse on a white board during a directors meeting before a vote, taking a moment to stand and write such quietly invokes pause and reflection, although at that instance, it did require translation from English to the native tongue of one half the board members that were non English speaking and non-Christian and followed by the expression of the significance of the accredited source, [i.e., the Bible].

So, while you are right that you certainly can't trust all attorneys, just try to say to the tax authorities that you had it on the sterling advice of the cruiser's forum that it was ok not to pay some tax or another.
You can't rely on all tax attorneys or CPAs. You can't rely on anyone from a blog.
The original poster should find a tax attorney or CPA that s/he has good reason to trust, take their advice, and ignore this blog.

[john61ct]

A forum and a blog are two completely different things

[torrmundi]

Originally Posted by Davy J

Please tell me where you got this nugget of information................

See https://www.flhsmv.gov/motor-vehicle...registrations/