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Old 27-02-2018, 07:05   #46
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Re: “STORM TACTICS” Catamarans

And constant sea anchor tension... Chances of getting something wrong with constantly changing sea conditions are pretty high...
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Old 27-02-2018, 07:51   #47
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Re: “STORM TACTICS” Catamarans

I seem to recall that a few years back a Catana capsized backwards during a winterstorm in the Med while under parachute from the bows, afaik with loss of life
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Old 27-02-2018, 08:00   #48
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Re: “STORM TACTICS” Catamarans

I remember that story very well too.
They had a major problem partly because they could not deploy the chute properly in the middle between the hulls.

They chute was off center and the boat could therefore not point with the bows to the waves and was consequently flipped.

So this is not really an example of a parachute not working.

Once they opened the escape hatch a lot of buoyancy was lost. In hindsight the sole survivor out of 5(!) contemplated if it was a mistake to open the hatch.
Still it surely needs guts to not leave the cabin.

I still have the story saved somewhere as a warning to myself.
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Old 27-02-2018, 08:17   #49
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Re: “STORM TACTICS” Catamarans

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekKelsall View Post
I have been lucky and able to run in the storms I have encountered. There is a well documented theory that a cat, lying ahull, surfs sideways to avoid the breaking wave. My theory, with some supporting evidence from clients and tank tests, is that lying a-hull is a fairly safe option. The wave meets the windward hull, throwing the hull upwards and looking like an immediate capsize. However, the speed of the wave passes under and lifts the lee hull well before the cat loses positive stability. One client, with wife and young baby on board, described the windward hull falling back as the most frightening till they got used to it. This, in my view, is one reason why the cat is usually more seaworthy than a tri. Happy boating. Derek.
Wouldn't the type of cat influence choosing lying ahull as a tactic? A cat with dagger boards up would slide side ways to better? A cat with mini keels would be more likely to trip?

I don't know, interested in your opinion.
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Old 27-02-2018, 08:37   #50
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Re: “STORM TACTICS” Catamarans

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exactly! if it can be deployed - it wasn't necessary!
I think this is often overlooked. I was running in a strong gale last year (monohull). Under bare poles but quite comfortable, I was sitting in the dark pouring rain in the cockpit pondering just how difficult it would be to setup the drogue if conditions worsened. Fortunately I didn't need to but it was a sobering experience, the difficulty created by lots of rain, wind, darkness and movement can easily lead to a mistake in deploying a safety device.

Two friends of mine have both been caught in bad storms. One between new Zealand and new cal. He deployed a parashute anchor, it became wrapped around his bilge keels, two days not being able to free it, somehow it freed its self in the end, they came through OK.

The other between Australia and new Zealand (the storm that sunk Nina).
This man is a boat builder and experienced sailor, had designed and build his vessel. He deployed a drogue but was concerned at the load the drogue was putting on the transom (and he knows his boat is strongly built). Drogue actually let go and he and crew actively steered while running until it passed.

My point is it's easy prior to the event to underestimate how difficult it maybe in bad conditions to deploy a drogue or parashute anchor. My conclusion, have drogue already set up, ready to throw, no thinking needed. Also I think maybe warps etc would be better? , slowing the boat but not as much as a drogue and not the force of a drogue but still helping steerage (more mono than cat).
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Old 27-02-2018, 09:05   #51
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Re: “STORM TACTICS” Catamarans

@Dale

In a beachcat you would raise the leeward board if its really blowing. That way the boat can still sail but also slide to some degree sideways when the windward hull starts to raise.

Having boards has a benefit in my eyes as it allows to control how much power is directed in forward motion.

Bilge keels do not offer that flexibility, but are less complex in building and less damage prone.
They do not inflict as much on interior space either.

Regarding prepping deployment. I agree. My chute lives in a second anchor compartment and can be deployed in 5 min.
Drogue could be attached with a bridle wrapped around the aft beam.
Still, I see that not all cats have an accessible aft beam to do it that way.

My biggest question remains though. Is it it possible to switch from trailed drogue to sea anchor...
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Old 27-02-2018, 18:15   #52
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Re: “STORM TACTICS” Catamarans

Zero chance...... unless ditching the drogue as cannot be recovered during the storm
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Old 27-02-2018, 23:22   #53
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Re: “STORM TACTICS” Catamarans

Well then, ditch the drogue. :-)
Switching to the sea anchor is your last resort anyway in this situation.

But I agree that might make matters worse.
Especially as you can not ditch it, turn and deploy all within one wavetrain...
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Old 27-02-2018, 23:53   #54
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Re: “STORM TACTICS” Catamarans

imagine lying to the pc: seas 25' & above, winds >50kn, motion on board: violent³ - & then you ditch the drogue! now if this will not end in a capsize nothing will!
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Old 28-02-2018, 00:08   #55
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Re: “STORM TACTICS” Catamarans

I am not saying that the option of this going right is really there.

But on my boat the ditching is the easy part. Two sharp cuts (within the cockpit).
The part which will kill it is the turn and deploy part.
Seems impossible.

To conclude.
You only have a choice to choose between sea anchor and alternatively trailing drogues, warps and similar items early in a storm.

Having to switch to the sea anchor later due to exhaustion seems impossible, unless there is a profound lull in waves and wind.

If you see a chance to outrun or turn away from the bad weather do so and try to slow down by trailing stuff.
If you have no chance to move away enough, deploy the sea anchor early.

Keep in mind the sea anchor needs you to have lots of sea room available.

Best is avoid bad storms completely [emoji3]
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Old 28-02-2018, 00:23   #56
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Re: “STORM TACTICS” Catamarans

while lots of details of our Wharram rtw in the 80ies are fuzzy already I'm still clear about one fact: even in the worst weather we had (it was a tradewind rtw after all) we never were without sails due to windstrength: upwind in the Red Sea we kept going with very small sail, & broad reaching in the Coral sea we werre down to stromjib. in both cases the going was absolutely wild, but keeping sail up still possible, evern with some reserves. but still I certainly would not have mucked around with a pc on deck, what with water everywhere & the wind. we had a tyre with chain ready to go at all times & this would have been feasible in both instances, but pc? I don't think so...
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Old 28-02-2018, 00:24   #57
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Re: “STORM TACTICS” Catamarans

Quote:
Originally Posted by YPSILANTI View Post
Catamaran Heavy Weather Strategy

By Mike French, Yacht Ypsilanti, South Africa.

I wrote this article for our South African Sailing magazine.


Introduction

I frequently ask skippers what their strategy is when encountering heavy weather. I either receive a definitive and well defined answer or a lot of ‘mumbo jumbo garble’. The latter surprises me as one would think that this subject is uppermost in any boat owner’s mind and that a skipper will have a clear, defined and concise strategy to deploy when encountering conditions that serve to threaten both crew and vessel.

What is disconcerting is that it is often the very experienced skippers that often don’t have a clear defined strategy for heavy weather tactics.

During a recent storm that prevailed in early June, I decided to set sail on my 50' Mayotte Voyage cat Ypsilanti with our somewhat inexperienced crew and with my good friends Mike Bunting and David Taylor of the vessel Alacrity fame who is a very experienced mono hull sailor in heavy weather. We decided to head to sea at the height of the gale. We put three reefs in our main and hoisted the storm jib on the inner forestay. The headsail was left fully furled. A somewhat surprised Port Control hesitated and reluctantly acknowledged our intentions to head to sea for two hours. All shipping had ceased and the ships had been relocated to anchorages further out to sea. We took all the necessary precautions of a full briefing, issued life jackets and donned our harnesses.

We encountered a swell of 5 meters and the wind peaked at 46 knots. The sea was ferocious and extremely unsettled. We beat for about an hour, but could not make much headway due to Ypsilanti not pointing very well. The bows were often submerged and waves washed over the entire vessel. However, the vessel behaved impeccably and the ride was not unsettling nor uncomfortable. Some moderate surfing upon returning was exhilarating although not excessive. A breaking set on our starboard side as we entered port provided much excitement to the adrenalin junkies amongst us.

People were somewhat surprised that we chose to actually head to sea under such adverse storm conditions. However, my view differs considerably. While it is clearly best to try an avoid bad weather, I do believe that being prepared for all eventualities is important and that it is far better to encounter storm sea conditions in a controlled and relatively safe environment - and learn how your cat handles - rather than to attempt to work this out the very first time you encounter a storm!

We reefed in the harbour at the port entrance and not out at sea. We were able to immediately return at any stage if threatened and vulnerable. We were sailing in daylight hours. It gave us an excellent opportunity to encounter extreme conditions.

Our sail was meticulously planned and executed. It provided us with ongoing experience and our intentions were meticulously executed according to plan. We debated heavy weather tactics both before and after the event. Much value and many lessons were learnt from the experience and such sailing will always place us in good stead when encountering similar such conditions under less controlled situations.

So, the next time a gale hits our shores, head to sea. However, be safe, be cautious, plan meticulously and execute your passage trip accordingly.

The following is a strategy that I have compiled for heavy weather sailing in my catamaran. I hope that it will be useful to catamaran owners and skippers and that it will stimulate some thought from all sailors’.


**Ypsilanti Heavy Weather Sailing Strategy

1. Sails
• Reef 1 at 25 knots.
• Reef 2 at 30 knots
• Reef 3 at 40 knots
• Progressively furl the genoa at discretion. However, it is preferable to hoist a storm jib on an inner/second forestay
• In excess of 40 knots, drop the main, fully furl the genoa and use only the storm jib.
• Thereafter, reduce to bare poles depending on the sea state.


2. Sailing to Windward
• Reduce sail progressively as per 1 above.
• Heave-to in less threatening conditions up to 40 knots. Lash the helm fully.
• Try to tack away from the shore. Get away from land, reefs and other navigational hazards.
• If hove-to, move the mainsheet to the leeward end of traveler after releasing the leeward running backstays. Lower the boom and lash the outboard end to the deck to reduce windage and stop it flaying about dangerously. Place the outboard end on a fender to prevent deck damage, and damage to any equipment attached to the boom in that area.
• If still dangerous, reduce to bare poles and run the motors. Helm into wind and swells and avoid the danger of breaking crests.
• If the motors fail or conditions deteriorate and waves break over the deck, change strategy to point 3 below and run with the storm. (ED. Sadly too many people take this option too late and as a final ‘get out of jail’ move).


3. Sailing Downwind
• Reduce sail progressively as per point 1 above. (Remember that there will be significant pressure on the mainsail against the rigging and it might be necessary to turn upwind to lower it. Always remember it’s easier and more sensible to reef early).
Eventually proceed to bare poles if the storm intensifies. (Bare poles are effective in high winds, but a storm jib flown off an inner forestay can also help as the center of effort is low, steerage is easier and it can be removed if the winds really get up to storm force).
• Sail at 85 degrees to the swell. Steer away slightly to avoid digging the bow into the swell ahead. (Don’t sail too deep as it is very easy for the buoyant stern of a multihull to be pushed further downwind, and at slow speed small multihull rudders take time to respond).
• Avoid running 90 degrees and hence risk a gybe. Use a gybe preventer whilst running.
• At lower speeds only, running the motors may assist in directional control and avoiding the yawing of the stern. A warp off one quarter may also help.
• Tow warps or preferably a Series Sea Drogue* if the vessels speed increases beyond a safe speed for the sea and swell conditions. Sea state often dictates when to deploy warps or preferably a sea anchor/drogue. In bad weather, sailors have been known to tow anchors, mattresses and all manner of gear in an attempt to keep the vessels speed down and manageable. But, there are specialist drogues available, and one should rather use these having researched which is best for your boat.


4. General
• Only proceed under bare poles if running engines heading into the wind - or towing warps/drogues if heading downwind. A series drogue is preferred. Test which is the best drogue for your boat. You need to have tested the one you choose to be sure of the right length to deploy, and how much weight to put on the line to ensure it stays immersed. Running engines with warps deployed is tricky as the warps may foul the engine, but fine if choosing to go slowly upwind.
• Avoid lying a-hull and simply drifting in a cat. Always have some forward motion and control, and minimize your speed at all times. Maintain forward motion in the general direction of the sea state so that if hit by a breaking wave the boat is already moving.
• Reduce speed from the stern and preferably not the bow by means of sea anchors. If lying to a sea anchor then deploy from the bow and not the stern as the boat is more streamlined and use window covers for saloon windows.
• Helm the vessel at all times. Do not use an autopilot in severe conditions. However, the autopilot can be used to reduce crew fatigue if necessary.
Pitch polling and capsize are the most dangerous incidents for which cats are vulnerable.
• Reef before it is necessary. Sooner is better than later. This is the most important aspect of voyaging and passage planning.
• Continuously monitor the weather and be both prepared and aware of impending weather and the direction in which to sail to safety.
Monitor the barometer and note if it is dropping, and how quickly. Keep an hourly log.
• Be safe to crew and vessel. Lots of rest, lots of helm changes, stay hydrated and eat often – rest in bunks to avoid being thrown around the interior)


NOTE. Valuable comments and input have been received from Mark Orr, the Author of ‘Multihull Seamanship’ and Peter Bruce, and the author of “Heavy Weather Sailing.” These books are a must read and are an invaluable source of information on this subject.

“Heavy Weather Sailing” by Peter Bruce is an excellent book. On the subject.


6. The Jordan series Drogue:
Why the U.S. Coast Guard thinks the series drogue is better than a para-anchor in storms.

The two conventional drogue configurations are the cone drogue and the parachute drogue/sea anchor. Both types have been used successfully in a variety of applications. A third type of drogue called a series drogue has been developed as part of this investigation. The series drogue is intended to provide near optimum performance under storm conditions and to avoid some of the problems encountered with cone and parachute drogue/sea anchor.


The series drogue offers the following desirable features:

If pre-rigged and coiled down into the lazarette, the drogue is simple and safe to deploy under difficult storm conditions. The boat, under bare poles, will be either running off lying a-hull. The anchor can be slipped over the stern and the line payed out. The drogue will build up load gradually as it feeds out.

It is almost impossible to foul it or entangle it enough to make the drogue ineffective.

The drogue rides beneath the waves and is not affected by the following sea even if a wave should break in the vicinity. There are cases on record where a cone drogue has been pulled out of the face of a following wave, and even instances where the drogue has been catapulted ahead of the boat. It is difficult to weight a cone or parachute drogue so that it will ride at a sufficient depth to avoid the wave motion. As discussed previously in this report, a weight causes the drogue to collapse when the towline goes slack.

When the boat is in the trough of a large wave, the towline tends to go slack thus permitting the boat to yaw. With the series drogue, the anchor sinks pulling the drogue backwards and taking some of the unwanted slack out of the towline.

When a breaking wave strikes, the drogue must catch the boat quickly to prevent a broach. The series drogue, since some of the cones are near the boat where towline stretch is low, will build up load faster than a conventional cone or chute at the end of the towline/bowline. A computer study shows that two seconds after wave strike, the series drogue will develop 40% more load than an equivalent cone or chute. Similarly, if the breaking wave strikes at an angle to the towline rather than directly astern, the series drogue will build up load much faster than the conventional types.

The series drogue is durable as demonstrated by the testing described in this report. The load on each individual element is low. No single failure can make the drogue ineffective.

The series drogue can double in function as a spare anchor line and can use the boat's regular anchor as a weight. All 90 cones weigh only four pounds.

This information is from the U.S. Coast Guard Report CG-D-20-87 sec 6-5. Further information from: Series Drogue, ocean survival



Obviously there are many different opinions and thoughts on this subject. All owners and skippers should get some experience of heavy weather before a long passage, or have at least researched the subject and have a ‘game plan’ for their boat. If nothing else, this article may stimulate debate. If it does we will all be more knowledgeable for it.
Great post, thank you. If nothing else, it's a thought provoking essay.
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Old 28-02-2018, 00:32   #58
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Re: “STORM TACTICS” Catamarans

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Originally Posted by Scotty Kiwi View Post
I agree with Mike French that the best thing for those who have any risk of heavy weather is to prepare, set out and experience it as practice.

SHoud be done on a regular basis, but always in a dying storm rather than at a peak. With the peak past, so long as the weather goes roughly to forecast, it should be possible to re-enter the marina withing a day in more benign conditions. In our area, just past peak will be steady 50, gusting 60 to 75 knots in the harbour without sea, and 6 - 8 meters out of the harbour, but steadier wind.

I'd get regular gype for this from others incl authorities. After once or twice no-one I knew would come out with me. Keeping the practice up, in these reasonably controlled situations, without exhaustion, sure paid off for later ocean crossings. Can't imaging an ocean crossing without having had that experience - as much from the fear of possible heavy weather as from the actuality.

Perhaps relevant, providing there was no risk of a lee shore, 10 to 20 degrees off dead downwind, drogue off the back to a winch for retrieval, the 3rd reef main or storm main sheeted in hard to soften roll, and around 20 - 30% genoa.

The biggest problem I faced (more than once) was the genoa reefing clutch not working (as usual) and the roller reefing line chaffing through unrolling from 30% intended the full 120%, and an hour or so lying and tied on the bowsprit re-rigging it while it flogged. Never managed to work out a solution to this risk that I felt was 100% fail safe.

In 15 years never had heavy weather in transit blowing completely in the wrong direction and never had a serious lee shore problem requiring heaving to or lying a hull. Trip planning and weather fax. If you've got a lee shore in a storm - well you haven't planned right, so good luck.

Hope that adds a little bit, even though this was monohull.
Where are you sailing out of? I would happily fly for that experience; I'm in Sydney
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Old 28-02-2018, 09:05   #59
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Re: “STORM TACTICS” Catamarans

Quote:
I wonder if its not better to deploy over the stern than to risk this.
Still the slabsided aft side of tge deck house does not make that advisable either.

Maybe the only real chance is to deploy the parachute early enough.
Only idea I do not like on that option is that one turns into a sitting duck fairly early.

Wonder if Fiorentino/Zak have thoughts on this.

Thanks,
Franziska
Once you deploy a storm drogue, para-anchor, or warp, you’re likely not going to have the energy it takes to switch tactics, especially as sea conditions deteriorate. And you know how fast wind and waves can build. Very fast.

Whether to choose a bow or stern deployed device really depends on where you’re traveling in the world, how well you know your boat, experience and size of your crew. Something I think everyone can relate to.

If you’re in the middle of the ocean with a crew of two, heading in the direction of bad weather, then maybe a bow deployed para-anchor is your best option. If you know your boat can fore-reach or heave-to well, then maybe that’s your best choice. Depends on the boat and how bad the weather might become.

If heading down wind takes you in a favorable direction then maybe a drogue or warp is a better option. There’s no right or wrong answer. It usually boils down to personal preference. Although, circumstance might decide for you, like your entire crew becoming sea sick.

When it comes to towing warps, boat design can factor into how much a warp can actually help out. What we’ve learned is a full keel sailboat can track well with a makeshift device, whereupon a fin keel vessel tends to jog around too much. Multihulls with their fast speed usually require extra components for slowing down (the deployment of more stuff).

We have a good article about a disabled catamaran towing a drogue and then warps to demonstrate the issue of not creating enough drag on our YouTube channel. The situation isn’t about storm deployment, but rudder damage in lighter winds. Still gets the point cross.

We're rarely notified by e-mail when there’s a thread post which can delay Fiorentino from responding to posts. Fiorentino is also a small company so we’ll help out with questions as time permits. Thank you.
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Old 28-02-2018, 09:08   #60
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Re: “STORM TACTICS” Catamarans

In reference to rudder issues mentioned in this thread about a para-anchor, if you consider our “Constant Rode Tension” methodology, you should be in good shape -- page 4: https://www.saltydawgsailing.org/wp-...-2017-V3-1.pdf

Rudder damage can be an issue with a stern deployed drogue that has too much holding power. It can potentially pull the boat backwards and downward into the trough. Frequent cockpit flooding can also be the result.

Veteran sailor, Randall, is presently on his figure 8 voyage and experienced frequent cockpit flooding while holding to his series drogue. The series drogue eventually broke apart. These potential problems were mentioned in the 1987 US Coast Guard report.

To be balanced, if a speed-limiting drogue loses its holding power, technically, a boat can fall sideways as it speeds down the wave and possibly damage the rudder. Although we’re not hearing any reports on this.
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