Serious Gun Question for EU Med

[capitangiorg]

Ken, as you know I'm italian.
Italian resident can own gun and keep at their home, they have just to declare it. They can't bring that weapon out of their residency.
If you use your gun for shooting sport you need some sort of affiliation (club or national federation) and apply for a sport gun permit, then you can own the sport gun and travel with it from your residency to the sport venue.
If for some reason you need a weapon to protect yourself you can apply for a weapon carry permit. You can carry only pistol with you, but you have to show authority why you need the gun and show them some certification, like that you had no violence related problems before, you have no psicologixal problems etc.
The last permit I know is for hunting. With an hunting permit you can own several hunting rifles and travel with them.
I don't really know what kind of rules apply for boat in transit. I imagine that they would lock your weapon and if they can't lock it, they will take custody of it and give you back it when you leave the country, but this is only my guess.
I'm pretty sure that you won't find the same approach in every Capitaneria di Porto, so I willl suggest you to contact the Capitaneria where you are going to clear in.
If you need me to call them, send me a PM.

[Kenomac]

Just as I thought for Italy, probably because I've heard it before from another Italian friend, but likely a shock to most Europeans, especially those from the UK who basically only have their flatware for home protection and assume all other countries are/or should be the same.

Now we're getting somewhere, and I will take you up on making a few calls. We'll be around when your wife is in Boston and you're always welcome in our home. Hopefully, we'll see the three of you this summer as we're passing through the Balearics.

Anyone from Portugal, Gibraltar or Spain out there who knows the laws regarding a yacht passing through with a shotgun onboard? I know Spain is similar to Italy with regard to long gun possession within the home. Again... not planning on taking the shotgun ashore except for storage in Italy during the off-season.

[atlantical]

Sounds like they made you jump through hoops, In Bermuda, I just handed it in, and got it back when I left. In Scotland, dealer picked it up in Largs marina, I was a bit nervous when he started aiming it around the marina, thought any min now someone will call the police, but I think that dealer was a ex policeman, I just got that impression. Yes it should have been declared, but I just couldn't get customs or immigration to come to the boat, I called them in stornaway, went into cambeltown, (office there had closed) called them from Largs, they said just send us a decleration, then after three weeks, immigration phoned me, and checked me in over the phone.

The rifle was valued by the dealer as zero, and he gave me nothing for it, so no value, nothing to pay,

As for the law carrying on boats, according to the head of the home office firearms division (who I talked to) it can be carried on any boat that is an ocean crosser, he said, ocean crosser is a very loose term, but if your boat has crossed an ocean, then its an ocean crosser.

Dont argue about it all with me, phone up the home office, and argue with them, I phoned customs, talked to a whole load of people who could tell me nothing, they asked why I wanted a gun, eventually said they didnt know, transferred me to the home office, they didn't know, put me through to firearms, spoke to the head, after about 45 mins of transfers and people asking me questions, I got some sense out of the head honcho, and he explained it clearly, so argue with him.

[uhu]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

... most Europeans, especially those from the UK who basically only have their flatware for home protection ....

A little hint like this one shows the true motivation for carrying a gun onboard - the "hunting gun" is therefore just an excuse to bend the laws.

Most people are welcome in European waters
- as long as they leave their guns at home


- if you cannot live without your gun(s), then stay home and don't come to the Med.


quite simple

[terah]

Originally Posted by atoll

as a uk non res citizen and uk flagged yacht i chose not to bring my semi automatic rifle with 30 round mags, a bolt action rifle and automatic pistol ,as some of the weapons contravened various sections of the law in the uk.

As a slight aside, as a UK citizen on a UK registered yacht, where is it legal to buy a pistol?

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by Shrew

This is an ironic approach to 'safety'. In an attempt to keep the guns and ammo 'safe', they force you to create an internal safety issue. Best practices typically dictate that ammo not be stored in a safe. In the event of a fire, should the contents detonate, it creates a chain reaction with the other ammo. The detonation of the ammo creates massive amounts of pressure within the safe, effectively creating a bomb.

I recognize and respect the fear of having unsecured ammunition as well. However, it creates a bit of a paradox.

Wrong. All wrong. False information.

I too would like to see informed experienced replies.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by terah

As a slight aside, as a UK citizen on a UK registered yacht, where is it legal to buy a pistol?

i bought mine in yemen from the yacht chandlers and had the customs deliver it to the yacht when we checked out.

i also bought my bolt action rifle in cyprus from an aussie yacht that was selling his vessel so had no further need for the rifle,that was being held in bond by the customs.

the customs just added the rifle to the list of my other firearms that they were holding in bond for me untill i checked out.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by uhu

A little hint like this one shows the true motivation for carrying a gun onboard - the "hunting gun" is therefore just an excuse to bend the laws.

Most people are welcome in European waters
- as long as they leave their guns at home


- if you cannot live without your gun(s), then stay home and don't come to the Med.


quite simple

I was comparing the UK situaltion to Italian gun laws pertaining to their right to have a long gun in the home assumed to be for home protection, no “hint” intended. Would you prefer all Italians who have a gun at home also leave the EU because you’d personally feel uncomfortable while visiting Italy?

We’ll be primarily in Italian waters and along the Adriatic, so let’s please try to keep the discussion on track and leave the feelings out of the equation.

[atlantical]

You can buy a cap and ball pistol, such as a colt navy, or a remington new model army in sports shops in the usa no ID required, perfectly legal for anyone to own, also buy them in italy and france, Pieta is the company that make them, think they are italian, but no, you cant own a cartridge firing pistol, already talked to the home office about that, they said very few people in the UK have a pistol licence, and each licence has to be signed by the home secretary.

[Kenomac]

I'm only wondering about the Mossberg Mariner 500, no plans to buy any more guns.

[Biomed]

Originally Posted by terah

As a slight aside, as a UK citizen on a UK registered yacht, where is it legal to buy a pistol?

Funny enough, in the UK!! Now the weird stuff: handguns are allowed for hunters for "humane dispatch" purposes. Now the rubs: try to get one..... and if you manage, many agencies allow a 2 shot only. All but 2 chambers in a revolver must then be welded up....
Pistols must also have a minimum length, so a steel rod is welded onto it. Looks, shoots and handles weird. For humane dispatch of game, no welding requirements. No such chamber or ammo limitation in the relevant Act, but is arbitrarily imposed by those licencing authorities. In essence, no handguns allowed in the UK, although on paper, for hunters, allowed. I don't even try to apply.
Pistol craft takes a lot of intensive training. If you don't have it already, or intend to get it, forget handguns.
In Europe, you can buy handguns in many countries, but they want to see a licence before they ship it. And then customs want to see the licence before they hand you the parcel! I bought a hunting handgun in Vienna, and jumped through all the hoops to import it into South Africa, transit via Holland. Never again. Black powder revolvers are more commonly licenced in the UK, but you must be a member in good standing of a club. And the get a permit to keep black powder and caps. Just to keep the blunderbus thing on your boat??? I have South African licenced hand guns. Considering the attitude of most countries' authorities to them, I have never brought them on board. They remain in South Africa. Fair winds!

[Biomed]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I'm only wondering about the Mossberg Mariner 500, no plans to buy any more guns.

Hi Kenomac! I was in a similar position to the one you are in. The difference is that I hunt in many places and can prove it, which gives me a bona fide reason in the eyes of the authorities to have firearms on board. Even with a European Firearms Pass, I do get asked where I intend to hunt but rarely now get asked for proof. I gave you in good faith the hoops I had to jump through and ongoing compliance requirements to have one or more guns on board, strictly for bona fide hunts and/or statutory polar bear protection. You should be able to tell from my posts, how involved things can get even with European paperwork up to date.
Now, things are relatively easy, but again: for bona fide hunting and polar bear protection exclusively. When I travel, they are on board, on a plane or train to and from the hunt. Your reason of self protection would not wash around here. All you can do, is state that you came from a risky area and intend to go back there, or through it. My suggestion is: you will in all likelihood enter the Med and exit it at Gibraltar. Declare the shotgun at Gibraltar, hand it in for safe keeping, pick it up when done sailing around here and leaving the continent and no issues anywhere. You really don't need it in any European marinas I know of.
I have a home in the UK, and when not on my way to a hunt or steaming far North, no guns on board but in my safe at home, European Firearms Pass notwithstanding. There are currently a lot of firearm related issues in the USA we read about frequently, both regarding possession and use, and people here simply don't want them and don't understand your mindset. Visiting the USA, I comply with the considerable demands for paperwork from the BATF, when I manage to book a hunt with an outfitter, or get lucky and a tag or two to hunt with friends. No handguns, no semi automatic rifles, just bolt actions and hunting shotguns. I cannot even have them on board, without BATF written approval, before I land. So, not much difference between Europe and the USA for us visiting boaters. When I visit the US or Canada without a hunt planned, no guns on board. Saves a lot of headache. Even with all the paperwork in order, your Authorities' attitude is, let's say, different from the guys here. US Coast Guard guys excepted, they have invariably been very friendly, polite and professional when checking guns and paperwork. Pleasure to deal with. Airport and land based authorities, have their own way. You get the message? Canada is much more forthcoming and open to us hunters.
As you read, I went all the way to comply with local requirements here, and acceded to the request of the local police to get local licences rather than temporary permits, involving more paperwork. But it paid off in spades. Best to accept the local attitudes, and behave accordingly. For what you want, my way is not worth the trouble and will not be accepted. Fair winds!

[james247]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I have a serious gun question regarding bringing a Mossberg Mariner 12 gauge shotgun aboard on our planned Atlantic crossing next month over to the Mediterranean. This thread isn't about safety, risk of crime, whether or not I should have one or be allowed to have a gun, so.... please save the cyberspace if you plan to vent or ask me why I feel the need to have one, we've never had a problem with crime or fear of crime anywhere in the Med over the past 6 years.



I'd like to hear specifically from folks who live in and know the gun laws for Italy, Spain, Portugal, Croatia and Greece about rules regulating the possession of a shotgun (and ammo) in their country as the laws would pertain to those folks (like us) who would arrive with a shotgun via boat. What would need to be done to properly secure a weapon onboard, and what would need to be done to declare upon entry. I already know that hunting weapons like a 12 gauge shotgun are allowed in these countries, but I need advice as to whether or not having one aboard would be worth the trouble.



Thanks and please spare me and others the anti-gun lectures.



Cheers



Ken

To ask this question in a public forum is from my experience naive at best. If you want a definitive answer to your question ask the folk who you will be asking for assistance when it likely goes south your American Embassy service. That's what they are there for.
It is one thing for a citizen or long term work vîsa holder to own a gun in some countries and an entirely different prospect for a tourist - which your status will be. My experience is it will be confiscated at the port of entry and may be returned from that same port when you leave for another country in this case a non EU country.
You need to make any arrangements in advance with the country you intend to visit. Any attempt to conceal the weapon will result in an unpleasant experience. The likes of which you see on tv.
So without my Antigun lecture there's my answer. Guns and particularly the type you propose in my opinion would not be worth the trouble.

[john61ct]

(In response to a gun-rights post) Who's brainwashed? Not having a gun is what is normal in the world.

Civilians in the developed world outside the US are not concerned about anyone taking their guns away, because they never had any, don't expect they should be allowed to.

And are not concerned about "defending their family" with weapons, those concerns having been largely eliminated by citizens having put in the effort to create a sane society, rather than one that breeds violence.

"being capable of looking after one another, having someone to count on in times of trouble, the freedom to make your own life decisions and personal support. It’s about trust and generosity"

Why the Finns don’t want to be happy http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/2018...nt-to-be-happy

If you want to safely carry a gun on board, best to stick to US and international waters, and then only visit countries where you know the routine.

[Biomed]

Originally Posted by james247

To ask this question in a public forum is from my experience naive at best. If you want a definitive answer to your question ask the folk who you will be asking for assistance when it likely goes south your American Embassy service. That's what they are there for.
It is one thing for a citizen or long term work vîsa holder to own a gun in some countries and an entirely different prospect for a tourist - which your status will be. My experience is it will be confiscated at the port of entry and may be returned from that same port when you leave for another country in this case a non EU country.
You need to make any arrangements in advance with the country you intend to visit. Any attempt to conceal the weapon will result in an unpleasant experience. The likes of which you see on tv.
So without my Antigun lecture there's my answer. Guns and particularly the type you propose in my opinion would not be worth the trouble.

Sensible advice, fair winds!