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Old 19-06-2018, 07:24   #91
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Re: Serious Gun Question for EU Med

I deleted a post, this is a hot topic. Please letís keep or posts to the point and not allow our opinions and emotions to intervene.
Whether you are for or against, letís not let that in the thread.
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Old 19-06-2018, 07:27   #92
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Re: Serious Gun Question for EU Med

Not everyone rides around on the same unicorns.

Fwiw, Ken mentioned he had a concealed carry (CC) license in the US. In most states this requires formal firearms training, fingerprints submitted to the FBI, and a more extensive background check. The LE officers I've talked to are therefore relieved when they approach a car they've pulled over for a traffic violation and their computer shows the driver is a CC holder. For obvious reasons, criminals don't voluntarily submit to fingerprinting & background checks.

Ken has made it clear and has chosen a firearm that is most suitable for self-defense aboard his boat. He does not intend to take it ashore, use it for sport or hunting, try to have it formally imported into another country, or otherwise remove it from what I am assuming is a secure location onboard. The only reason for anyone to fear this scenario is if they intend to engage in a criminal act and do him or his crew harm.

The only question Ken made efforts to carefully raise is whether the feasibility & hassle of compliance in certain, specified nations outweighs any potential benefits of bringing a firearm along on a transatlantic passage. Not unlike a liferaft, a firearm is simply another potential piece of onboard safety gear for those who are properly trained in its use.
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Old 19-06-2018, 07:34   #93
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Re: Serious Gun Question for EU Med

But having it aboard **is** importing it for most jurisdictions.

If a local breaks in to steal your stuff, you're usually not allowed to use it, and now it's that country's problem.

Hmm. . .

I bet there would be a market for an underwater gun-storage submarine drone you could leave out in international waters, pick it back up on your way out.
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Old 19-06-2018, 07:56   #94
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Re: Serious Gun Question for EU Med

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
But having it aboard **is** importing it for most jurisdictions.

If a local breaks in to steal your stuff, you're usually not allowed to use it, and now it's that country's problem.

Hmm. . .

I bet there would be a market for an underwater gun-storage submarine drone you could leave out in international waters, pick it back up on your way out.
"Importing" is a legal term that probably varies by jurisdiction. In any event, the intent here is not to move the firearm off the boat, so whatever rules or terminology apply to that scenario Ken has made it clear he intends to follow.

It's a little incongruous to cite no need for self-defense but at the same time pose a scenario where a local may break into your boat.
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Old 19-06-2018, 08:34   #95
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Re: Serious Gun Question for EU Med

One thing i keep hearing about is leaving it with customs until leaving.
To me this is perfectly fine as the times I'd hope to have a firearm are far away from places that are civilized so to speak.I do plan on exploring polar bear country and it is required in a lot of cases to have a weapon.


So short of sailing back to the US to store my weapon what are our options for leaving it in bond with customs?Is there a fee (I'd assume so) and is there a max length you can do so?Is it possible to have it transported from one area to another?


I'd happily leave a shotgun with customs in order to comply with local laws yet be able to have it while on open waters. I agree with the people that are against them being needed in their countries but lets face it as cruisers there are times when they are a useful tool too.


I know this isnt the same as the original post but it may be a viable compromise for him too.
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Old 19-06-2018, 08:50   #96
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Re: Serious Gun Question for EU Med

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
"Importing" is a legal term that probably varies by jurisdiction. In any event, the intent here is not to move the firearm off the boat, so whatever rules or terminology apply to that scenario Ken has made it clear he intends to follow.

It's a little incongruous to cite no need for self-defense but at the same time pose a scenario where a local may break into your boat.
There is the rub! In Europe, people do have the right to self defense, using whatever means at their disposal. There's a BUT: the defence and the way it is performed must be PROPORTIONAL to the threat. Generally, it means that one may not use deadly force to counter a burglary, or a common assault, or a theft. There is no "Castle" principle, like you have in some US states. Nor a "stand your ground" concept, as may apply in some US States. Here, one is required to avoid and evade potential confrontations, even if one is in the right. Meeting a thief or burglar with a loaded gun, even when not firing it, means certain prison time. For the victim of the burglary or theft. Shooting someone for theft, ditto. And also if they run away with the loot, or your boat! No firearms may be used to defend property. And so it goes. Apart from a criminal record, there will almost certainly be a Civil Claim against the property owner who injured or killed a thief. The European society is very different to the USA one, with very different Norms and Values. Most countries in the Med. apply these standards.
If one is not intimately familiar with them in however may countries one intends to visit, lose the gun. No one here cares about a post shooting defence referring to USA laws and traditions, relying on those will make things worse. What one does not have, cannot get one into trouble. Coming from South Africa, we too had to undergo a total mental reprogramming, but there it is.
The remarks I read, regarding the use of armed private defence in these posts, make me suggest very strongly that you are better served without firearms on board for "self defense". Fair winds!
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Old 19-06-2018, 08:52   #97
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Re: Serious Gun Question for EU Med

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost-There View Post
One thing i keep hearing about is leaving it with customs until leaving.
To me this is perfectly fine as the times I'd hope to have a firearm are far away from places that are civilized so to speak.I do plan on exploring polar bear country and it is required in a lot of cases to have a weapon.


So short of sailing back to the US to store my weapon what are our options for leaving it in bond with customs?Is there a fee (I'd assume so) and is there a max length you can do so?Is it possible to have it transported from one area to another?


I'd happily leave a shotgun with customs in order to comply with local laws yet be able to have it while on open waters. I agree with the people that are against them being needed in their countries but lets face it as cruisers there are times when they are a useful tool too.


I know this isnt the same as the original post but it may be a viable compromise for him too.
in australia we were able to leave the fire arms in bundaberg and pick them up in darwin,there was no charge, this was a few years back so there might be a charge now.

gib there was no charge,but would only store for 6 months,then would destroy the weapons if un collected.

cyprus ,a small charge,but no time limit on storage

malta no charge,and no time limit.

trinidad,no charge and no time limit.

caribean islands generally allowed storage onboard with declaration.
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