self defense - are you trained

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Smoothontop.

[atoll]

best thing i ever learnt as a kid going to judo classes was how to fall!

now it is instintive to roll,cant belive the amount of times it has saved me from serious injury!

[boatman61]

Being raised in Pakistan I learnt a sport called Kabadi... basically its 2 teams of 5 with a centre line and the object is for one person to cross into the opponents territory... you are safe till you cross a second line halfway in but this gives the opposition time to get between you and 'Home'.... you then have to make it back through 5 people to your own half... if your caught and dropped your out... the 'field' is around the size of a Badminton court...
I got extremely good at ducking, weaving and using the elbows... no punching was allowed.
But as someone said... machetes are great equalisers and I'd beat them of with my wallet, phone and anything else they wanted...

[belizesailor]

Re defensive martial arts styles.

Korean Hapkido is also a very practical defensive style. Primarily close quarters techniques using pressure points, joint locks, hold breaks, and throws. It complememts a style like Taekwondo, which heavily emphasises powerful kicks/punches for non close quarters use, very well.

Being an old fart now, I would probably hurt my self throwing a full power Taekwondo style kick, but even an old fart could still inflict a lot of pain with basic Hapkido techniques which require very little movement.

Both these styles are still in use by the Korean military. (Never tangle with a Korean...they are tough people...decades later, I still cringe when I think about the pain those little Korean Masters used to inflict on me!)

[cruise]

Being young I go to the gym regularly so I am pretty burly, I also train in muai thai

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by boatman61

... machetes are great equalisers...

I live in Guatemala, the typical Guatemalan male spends much of his life with a machete in his hand...would not want to find myself in a conflict with a machete weilding Chapin (Guatemalan).

[virginia boy]

My early adult years were rife with violence. I couldn't count the number of "fights" I was involved in. Perhaps over a hundred. I've been stabbed in the torso three times, one of which nicked a vein in my liver and very nearly did me in. Have stared down the barrel of a handgun a few times and once was thrown in the back seat of a car, driven to the Anacostia river where I begged for my life as the three of them discussed whether to kill me or not.
I can't help but laugh as I listen to people in their 60s and 70s consider taking martial arts classes. The vast majority of people don't have the experience to recognize trouble as it's unfolding and even if they do, when it's time to attack they hesitate or strike weakly because they have been conditioned to not hurt people. They try to talk their way out of it when they should have struck as soon as the bad guy was within range. Every man likes to think he will have the courage and skill to physically protect himself or hs family but few do. Will you still have the courage to fight after your occipital bones have been shattered and there are nothing but gums where your front teeth used to be? If you've not had a crapload of experience don't fight. The idea of a 65 year old, soft fat guy defending himself against anyone is ludicrous.

My advice is to keep a substantial amount of money (500-1000usd) available to hand over to the robber and hide the rest. Don't piss him off by claiming you don't have any or trying to hand him chump change, you'll just get your feelings hurt. Keep a canceled credit card to turn over along with the money. Dental implants cost a lot more than 500 dollars! Most of the time if a robber strikes before he speaks it's only to take the fight out of you. Do yourself a favor and be compliant. Unless of course you're certain that you can take him without getting hurt. As Obama keeps repeating...all options are on the table.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by virginia boy

My early adult years were rife with violence. I couldn't count the number of "fights" I was involved in. Perhaps over a hundred. I've been stabbed in the torso three times, one of which nicked a vein in my liver and very nearly did me in. Have stared down the barrel of a handgun a few times and once was thrown in the back seat of a car, driven to the Anacostia river where I begged for my life as the three of them discussed whether to kill me or not.
I can't help but laugh as I listen to people in their 60s and 70s consider taking martial arts classes. The vast majority of people don't have the experience to recognize trouble as it's unfolding and even if they do, when it's time to attack they hesitate or strike weakly because they have been conditioned to not hurt people. They try to talk their way out of it when they should have struck as soon as the bad guy was within range. Every man likes to think he will have the courage and skill to physically protect himself or hs family but few do. Will you still have the courage to fight after your occipital bones have been shattered and there are nothing but gums where your front teeth used to be? If you've not had a crapload of experience don't fight. The idea of a 65 year old, soft fat guy defending himself against anyone is ludicrous.

My advice is to keep a substantial amount of money (500-1000usd) available to hand over to the robber and hide the rest. Don't piss him off by claiming you don't have any or trying to hand him chump change, you'll just get your feelings hurt. Keep a canceled credit card to turn over along with the money. Dental implants cost a lot more than 500 dollars! Most of the time if a robber strikes before he speaks it's only to take the fight out of you. Do yourself a favor and be compliant. Unless of course you're certain that you can take him without getting hurt. As Obama keeps repeating...all options are on the table.

+A1... the world is full of keyboard heros...

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by mischief

I have had years of Jujitsu training. It matters what style you train in what dojo and what instructors you have. Whenever I moved it took a while to find another suitable combination for my needs as not all Dojo's are created equal.

I was fortunate to always find one that instilled the theory and combat training I was looking for. Ill also say although a one of class or workshop may be better than nothing depending on the student (it could get you killed to), you really need ongoing training until it is like walking.

Also within the training places I trained at there would often be nobody sparring as I needed and would have to recruit the eager and build up to it. This would be less of an issue at some MMA training places that are purposely training for full contact competition.

But I always found that the jujitsu places I trained at trained for actual combat in real life scenarios.
The basic principles were;
Early recognition of a threat
Separate yourself from potential threat
Recognize potential weapons and arm yourself if not already done and if possible. This can be a pen or anything
Diffuse the threat
Look compliant but not a a target.
If combat is imminent and there are no other options attack first
It would go something like

If at Maximum hand to hand combat distance Very loud Ki (distracts and startles ) and foot strike to femoral artery or bladder, step in strike/ grabbing enemy hard (whenever you contact you should inflict pain) and throat strike or occipital strike, facial tear down which is a technique used to manipulate the head that brings your enemy to the ground and usually transitions into an arm lock ( never leaving your opponent without controlling him hands are always on him ) you could now break his arm, ribs and concuss his head. Move off the top of his head and prepare for your next attacker as they are usually not alone.
All this or other variations must be executed very quickly to the point your attacker is still shocked from your initial Ki and happens so fast he cannot orient himself. That whole scenario should take about 3 seconds.

Now this is only a hypothetical simple attack but as laid out if you decide you will engage in combat you better make sure you can inflict enough damage he will not get back up. This is also a non armed assailant disarming a machete wielding opponent ads new dimension. But knowing how to if the opportunity presents itself can change the game.

Now back to training to be able to do this effectively you must be able to train at full speed and there will be lots of pain involved. Joint manipulation needs to be taken to the threshold as do chokes and locks. You would be surprised that students not used to being choked instantly tap out, but once trained to go to threshold over and over soon if your choke technique is not correct your opponent can defeat it.

So part of the training is stamina, fighting takes a tremendous amount of energy and you must be able to sustain until its over. Proper training also
Conditions your pain threshold.

So its my beliefs that its good to train. But it's very involved (I have now stopped training and recognize my limitations) I would also say avoid styles that are to much fluff too many fancy kicks or take lifetimes to master.

Pick something that will work Thai kickboxing where you actually get in the ring is simple and effective but lacks locks and holds. I'm a big fan of joint manipulation simple effective targeted strikes holds grappling etc. Most fights will end up on the ground so train for it.

There's a lot of good MMA training places but I've not followed it enough lately. It seems though there are a lot more rules in the cage matches. When there wasn't Jujitsu was king. It may not have been as entertaining to watch but it was effective. I could be wrong with the MMA and rules. At any rate if they train to the point that it would be easy to convert that training to lethal or crippling then you are good. I would avoid any training that does not teach you how to finish an opponent so he will not get back up. Not necessarily killing your enemy but damaging enough he cannot attack you again.

One other thing if you do that in a poor country to a person that has a family a you should maybe hope he dies because if he doesn't it puts a huge burden on his family (ie can't work and $$$$ in medical bills and support) some disgruntled members may try and hunt you down. Depending where you are there is sometimes not much value on life but having been left with huge costs can make revenge and hatred build) at either rate I'd be making myself scarce as soon as it was properly dealt with.

Then again I could be a complete nut job in fact my wife would likely agree.

Im a regular Hoce Gracie myself lol,to hell with kicking and punching,Im going to choke someone out if they attack me ...Chocked out and Tie um up into a small package,beats the hell out of getting hit over and over...

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by BoomBrake

Brazilian Jiu-jitsu is designed for close quarters defence and particularly well suited for defending against someone stronger or larger than yourself. I trained with women and they became very effective fighters quickly because of this advantage.

Additionally some of the street techniques involve rapid disarming of weapons (yes both knives and guns) and defending against attacks from behind, which are typical of mugging and robbery situations.

Kickboxing is useless in the typical yacht cockpit or cabin area where space and flat area for a spread stance is minimal. Stand in your cockpit and try an effective roundhouse kick...

I'm no expert, but learned Machado BJJ for some time and was most impressed by Jean Jacques Machado, whom only born with one hand, became a most formidable and champion fighter. He is small in stature and fights one handed, you could not pay me to try and fight him.

The thing that he taught me; and the core philosophy of Jiu-jitsu, is to use your disadvantage as an advantage against an opponent.

There is a school in PA for the blind and there wrestling team is just about second to none,those blind boys can kick some ass,best not to let one get a hold of you,but the rules are such that they get to put their hands on you berfore the match starts and once they have that advantage ,watch out because it wont be long until your tied up and hurting....

[Kenomac]

So I guess according to most CF experts, we're all just supposed to give up, leave our companionway doors open and hand over our wallets... and hope nobody hurts us. Some even suggest having extra cash onboard to help fund an attackers lifestyle.

Nothing wrong with knowing some close contact Karate, planning ahead with onboard tactics and having a few hunting knives spread around the boat in handy places. A good offense makes an excellent compliment to a good defense.

That said, if handing over the wallet will get you out of the situation quickly.... do it.

[Charter Cat]

Originally Posted by virginia boy

My advice is to keep a substantial amount of money (500-1000usd) available to hand over to the robber and hide the rest. Don't piss him off by claiming you don't have any or trying to hand him chump change, you'll just get your feelings hurt. Keep a canceled credit card to turn over along with the money. Dental implants cost a lot more than 500 dollars! Most of the time if a robber strikes before he speaks it's only to take the fight out of you. Do yourself a favor and be compliant. Unless of course you're certain that you can take him without getting hurt. As Obama keeps repeating...all options are on the table.

This is a really good point that I never thought of.

I'm 6'7" and fit, but I would never try to fight. I would never escalate the situation outside my comfort zone but into theirs. Always humble, compliant, try to stay positive, and I can a use my long legs to try to escape if given an opportunity. Anything else is just not worth the risk and potential downside.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

So I guess according to most CF experts, we're all just supposed to give up, leave our companionway doors open and hand over our wallets... and hope nobody hurts us. Some even suggest having extra cash onboard to help fund an attackers lifestyle.

Nothing wrong with knowing some close contact Karate, planning ahead with onboard tactics and having a few hunting knives spread around the boat in handy places. A good offense makes an excellent compliment to a good defense.

I think rigging a bug sprayer with several heads ,spread along the sheer line full of vasoline and gas ,both starboard and port, and a automatic flint striker for ignition would work well for unwanted borders still in their little boats...Once on your boat ,then they could be attacked with more vasoline and gas and have a weight on the end of your spinniker pole attached above with quik release that when "Unhinged" comes swinging across and knocks the fellow back into his boat or the water...This is a most "fool "proof plan...

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

So I guess according to most CF experts, we're all just supposed to give up, leave our companionway doors open and hand over our wallets... and hope nobody hurts us. Some even suggest having extra cash onboard to help fund an attackers lifestyle.

Nobody said anything about leaving your boat open or unlocked. Quite the opposite. It should be well-secured, and it should look well-secured. Deterrence.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

I think rigging a bug sprayer with several heads ,spread along the sheer line full of vasoline and gas ,both starboard and port, and a automatic flint striker for ignition would work well for unwanted borders still in their little boats...Once on your boat ,then they could be attacked with more vasoline and gas and have a weight on the end of your spinniker pole attached above with quik release that when "Unhinged" comes swinging across and knocks the fellow back into his boat or the water...This is a most "fool "proof plan...

This absured idea was inspired by the "give them cash" proposal,then I thought about it and remembered doing just this very thing in Mexico(for the police not "regular crooks"!)...