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Old 23-05-2019, 14:31   #46
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Re: Sailboat Age Discrimination - West Coast Ca.

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Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
Mia Noi should show them the survey, and be done with it, if he has one.
But in their communications I don't think that option was offered?
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Old 23-05-2019, 15:04   #47
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Re: Sailboat Age Discrimination - West Coast Ca.

My 1963 Pearson Ariel had a "replacement" value of $75K on its last survey. I paid $1,600 for her (she needed a lot of work).

I've encountered the same snootiness from a few marinas in the S.F. Bay. I just tell them: "OK. Somebody else wants my money." And if you're ducking in to get out of bad weather, they'll usually (and reluctantly) let you stay till it passes. They don't want to see the headline: "Boat sinks with all aboard because harbor said it was too old/small/ugly to take refuge." You might try reciting that headline, to give them a moment of pause, before they throw you out. Some harbormasters, but I suppose not all, may not want their extreme degree of hostile snootiness exposed.

I try to plan my sails here on the West Coast so I can make my transient stays in fishing harbors. They don't have their noses set quite so high in the air.
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Old 23-05-2019, 15:05   #48
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Re: Sailboat Age Discrimination - West Coast Ca.

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Originally Posted by gonesail View Post
...marinas not having slips for boats smaller than 40 feet.
A couple of years ago we were in the office paying for our berth and pointed out where we'd moored the boat, they instructed (and to be fair assisted) us to move to the opposite side of the pontoon, the reason given being: "It's going to get busy in here tonight, so as you're not very big (35') you'll fit down there and we can keep this space for something a bit bigger and we can't get anything longer than 36' down at that end." It seemed fair enough, until I later realised that the marina had set 42'/13m as their minimum size charge.

In a similar vein, when we sailed down the west of France a good few years ago where the charge bands invariably seemed to be <8m/8-10m/10-12m - we were 27'/8.5m yacht - we repeatedly came across another British guy sailing a Sadler 34, the papers for which showed the boat to be 10.03m, or perhaps 10.06m? Whatever, it was certainly just over. He got irate every time we met in that they'd put him on an 8-10m mooring (usually the one right next to us) but charge him an extra 25-30% because his was 10-12m boat.
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Old 23-05-2019, 15:55   #49
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Re: Sailboat Age Discrimination - West Coast Ca.

Is this not just basic economics? It sounds to me like a free unregulated market with limited sellers and limitless buyers. The marinas (the sellers) get to balance the market on their terms, and to ensure their profit is enhanced. Or to be real picky about who they let in. Especially on a holiday weekend when demand for transient berths is limitless.
To the OP- it sucks to be you. You've got a really great looking boat and can't enjoy it fully. And you're being refused in a way that seems unfair and discriminatory. It is. But you're being discriminated against economically. Arbitrary rules are being set to discriminate against boat owners who aren't seen by the marina to be able to make a big enough contribution to their profit.
I've only had to start producing proof of insurance to get transient slips in the last 2 or 3 years. Proof of ownership? 2 year survey? Omg
PS nothing liberal or conservative about the situation imo
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Old 23-05-2019, 16:03   #50
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Re: Sailboat Age Discrimination - West Coast Ca.

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Is this not just basic economics? It sounds to me like a free unregulated market with limited sellers and limitless buyers. The marinas (the sellers) get to balance the market on their terms, and to ensure their profit is enhanced. Or to be real picky about who they let in. Especially on a holiday weekend when demand for transient berths is limitless.
To the OP- it sucks to be you. You've got a really great looking boat and can't enjoy it fully. And you're being refused in a way that seems unfair and discriminatory. It is. But you're being discriminated against economically. Arbitrary rules are being set to discriminate against boat owners who aren't seen by the marina to be able to make a big enough contribution to their profit.
I've only had to start producing proof of insurance to get transient slips in the last 2 or 3 years. Proof of ownership? 2 year survey? Omg
PS nothing liberal or conservative about the situation imo
Some folks have to blame "the idiot liberals" for everything they don't like. Makes life easier for them to understand and navigate I guess, seems like it would just make one miserable if you have to reach that much to make a marina's berth decisions the fault of all those you disagree with politically!
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Old 23-05-2019, 16:13   #51
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Re: Sailboat Age Discrimination - West Coast Ca.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desodave View Post
Is this not just basic economics? It sounds to me like a free unregulated market with limited sellers and limitless buyers. The marinas (the sellers) get to balance the market on their terms, and to ensure their profit is enhanced. Or to be real picky about who they let in. Especially on a holiday weekend when demand for transient berths is limitless.
To the OP- it sucks to be you. You've got a really great looking boat and can't enjoy it fully. And you're being refused in a way that seems unfair and discriminatory. It is. But you're being discriminated against economically. Arbitrary rules are being set to discriminate against boat owners who aren't seen by the marina to be able to make a big enough contribution to their profit.
I've only had to start producing proof of insurance to get transient slips in the last 2 or 3 years. Proof of ownership? 2 year survey? Omg
PS nothing liberal or conservative about the situation imo

Adam Smith laid the foundations of classical economic theory. Before he wrote The Wealth of Nations (1776), in which he said you can't have capitalism without fairness and justice, he wrote a book on morality: The Theory of Moral Sentiments (1759). Many of the concepts of what today may be called "liberalism" or "socialism" were actually part of the foundations of capitalism. Time has just distilled out the best parts - leaving us with only the sour leftovers.

It was too soon for Smith to imagine the viciousness of amoral corporate greed and sociopathy.
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Old 23-05-2019, 16:45   #52
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Re: Sailboat Age Discrimination - West Coast Ca.

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Originally Posted by bobnlesley View Post
A couple of years ago we were in the office paying for our berth and pointed out where we'd moored the boat, they instructed (and to be fair assisted) us to move to the opposite side of the pontoon, the reason given being: "It's going to get busy in here tonight, so as you're not very big (35') you'll fit down there and we can keep this space for something a bit bigger and we can't get anything longer than 36' down at that end." It seemed fair enough, until I later realised that the marina had set 42'/13m as their minimum size charge.

In a similar vein, when we sailed down the west of France a good few years ago where the charge bands invariably seemed to be <8m/8-10m/10-12m - we were 27'/8.5m yacht - we repeatedly came across another British guy sailing a Sadler 34, the papers for which showed the boat to be 10.03m, or perhaps 10.06m? Whatever, it was certainly just over. He got irate every time we met in that they'd put him on an 8-10m mooring (usually the one right next to us) but charge him an extra 25-30% because his was 10-12m boat.
The California Yacht Marinas' to which the OP was desiring to obtain a slip for Memorial Day weekend at the Port Royal facility has the following Slip rate determination structure which seems appropriate and straightforward.

"Slip fees are based on boat length or slip length, whichever is greater. The overall length of any vessel is defined as the distance from the most forward of the vessel to the further position aft, this includes all items such as pulpits, anchors/anchor rollers, davits, swimsteps, outboards, bowsprits etc. Neither vessel nor any part of the vessel may project into the fairway more than 3 feet. Slips are assigned to accommodate vessels with no overhang except as permitted by the marina.

Definitive slip fee amount will be determined upon arrival and inspection by marina personnel."
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Old 23-05-2019, 17:11   #53
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Re: Sailboat Age Discrimination - West Coast Ca.

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But in their communications I don't think that option was offered?
That's right, but he knows NOW, and I hope he has the survey.....but as I said, it may be too late for Mem. Day Weekend, anyway.

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Old 23-05-2019, 18:41   #54
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Re: Sailboat Age Discrimination - West Coast Ca.

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Sounds pretty strange to me. While I’ve only taken moorings, not slips, here on the east coast, they’ve only asked for boat name and length. Is insurance information usually requested at slips? Is it a west coast thing, or everywhere?

Matt
Most marinas anywhere in the world want proof of insurance. Boat yards too for that matter.
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Old 23-05-2019, 19:17   #55
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Re: Sailboat Age Discrimination - West Coast Ca.

Has anyone anywhere ever had a Catalina 22 surveyed? Survey cost might easily exceed boat's value. And every 2 years no less!
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Old 23-05-2019, 21:04   #56
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Re: Sailboat Age Discrimination - West Coast Ca.

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Originally Posted by SV Mia Noi View Post
I sail a 1978 Catalina 22 which I fully overhauled, rebuilt and refitted new hardware in 2015.

I tried to book a guest slip at Port Royal Marina in King Harbor (Redondo Beach Ca.) for the Memorial Day Weekend. I emailed my insurance details, registration and a photo of my Catalina 22 to the Port Royal Marina Office Manager.

The Manager replied quote:
"Good Morning,

I am sorry but we cannot rent you due to the year of your vessel. We only rent guest slips to vessels that are 1990 or newer."


Anyone else had this happen to them? They are providing a service but discriminating against age. Isn't that illegal? Or does it only apply to a living thing?

I can only assume they want to keep their marina gentrified with newer boats or keep financially strapped liveaboards from setting down roots.

If it's an issue with Port Royal Marina's insurance - that only covers boats newer than 1990, then say that. Don't discriminate against older boats.

I'm proud of my small boat. Small boats make good sailors and I plan to keep on sailing her until I can afford a bigger one, or the wife lets my sell the house so we can go Cruising!
At $19+ per ft I'd look quickly somewhere else for a slip.
$250.00 a month extra for liveaboard, minimum 30 ft boat.
Tells me their just not worthy of your beautiful vessel and enthusiasm.
Screw em
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Old 23-05-2019, 21:18   #57
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Re: Sailboat Age Discrimination - West Coast Ca.

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Originally Posted by NorthCoastJoe View Post
BTW Mark, it’s amusing to consider this as an example of "out of control liberal idiots”. If you wanted to make any political connection, which I’m not sure why you would, then surely the more obvious one is to conservative ideology.
I agree with Mike, if it was a liberal run marina, anything goes.
Conservative and uptight might be a better term.[/QUOTE]


:
Touché
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Old 24-05-2019, 04:49   #58
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Re: Sailboat Age Discrimination - West Coast Ca.

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Has anyone anywhere ever had a Catalina 22 surveyed? Survey cost might easily exceed boat's value. And every 2 years no less!
Over the 12 years we've had our little boat, we had to get one survey. Probably because we have damage & theft insurance in addition to liability. The cost of the survey was approx 1.5 times the annual premium.
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Old 24-05-2019, 05:34   #59
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Re: Sailboat Age Discrimination - West Coast Ca.

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This happens a lot in the RV world. Some RV parks have the intelligent policy of admission upon inspection. But I'm guessing it isn't pleasant when they reject some one.
We've come across this but never do they state any exception officially. That would have people demanding an inspection and questioning why they didn't pass muster.

What we've found is if they see a clean well kept RV, they "forget" to ask about age.

Bottom line, it's a business decision. A campground or marina full of junk will turn away potential clients who would be willing to pay more. You can go on about how it's ethically wrong and snobbish but if it's your business going down hill, you aren't going to care.
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Old 24-05-2019, 05:49   #60
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Re: Sailboat Age Discrimination - West Coast Ca.

I'm pretty sure you can anchor inside the marina across from the Harbormaster dock. I think its still free for three days. I love going to King's harbor to visit my brother. and getting breakfast at Polly's on the pier but It is smack in the middle of L.A. county and a very desirable uppity area. I'll bet the waiting list for a slip is 10 years. I've heard they don't have guest or transient slips but the yacht club might accommodate visitors.
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