Optimum $200,000 cruiser, with conditions

[Jolly Roger]

Originally Posted by zippy

Why is "floating condo" always said with such distain? There is nothing wrong with being comfortable, and it doesn't have to be at the expense of seaworthiness if properly done.

I entirely agree Zippy, and I’ve rebuilt my little condo for maximum comfort at sea and anchor or marina. The disdainers are usually people who can’t afford, or too lazy to maintain things which make life more tolerable on a small boat.

[AiniA]

A terrific choice just within your budget is the Northeast 400. Cabo Rico quality and all the bells and whistles. There is considerable customization of the second cabin (opposite the galley). Sometimes it is a second sleeping cabin, sometimes a den/office. Here is one example.

2000 Cabo Rico Northeast 400 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[AiniA]

A terrific choice just within your budget is the Northeast 400. Cabo Rico quality and all the bells and whistles. There is considerable customization of the second cabin (opposite the galley). A really nice feature is that from the swim platform to the pilothouse it is all on the same level and only three steps (not ladder) down to the forward section of the boat. Sometimes it is a second sleeping cabin, sometimes a den/office. Here is one example.

2000 Cabo Rico Northeast 400 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[Jim Cate]

Why is "floating condo" always said with such distain? There is nothing wrong with being comfortable, and it doesn't have to be at the expense of seaworthiness if properly done.

Could you provide some examples of seaworthy "floating condos" please? I've not noticed such in person.

Jim

[Cheechako]

For the Caribe, or for any general cruising not crossing oceans, I would want something that is not a cave like most monos. So a cat would be good, or a mono with raised salon.
It's a much different world sitting and watching your surroundings. Not that you cant get out in the cockpit in a mono... but it is different, and all that up and down the ladder is tiring. On a cat or saloon, just step out and in.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Could you provide some examples of seaworthy "floating condos" please? I've not noticed such in person.

Jim

Most any cat would be, the "seaworthy" part is a personal consideration though...

[zippy]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Could you provide some examples of seaworthy "floating condos" please? I've not noticed such in person.

Jim

That's the rub Jim, it's all relative. I spent a month on a 47ft cat in the Eastern Caribbean and it was very seaworthy and very condo like. So that's one example. Beneteau 473's can be very well appointed and very seaworthy boats, even condo like in my opinion.

You don't have to live uncomfortably to avoid sinking..

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by zippy

That's the rub Jim, it's all relative. I spent a month on a 47ft cat in the Eastern Caribbean and it was very seaworthy and very condo like. So that's one example. Beneteau 473's can be very well appointed and very seaworthy boats, even condo like in my opinion.

You don't have to live uncomfortably to avoid sinking..

I thought that the OP was considering monohulls, not cats, in his search.

But tell me, in your month on the 47 ft cat in the E Caribe, how did you determine its seaworthyness? (I won't argue its condo status, not knowing what sort of cat it was). Did you experience some really harsh weather and bad seas? Were you able to make long passages with adequate fuel and water supplies? Could you get her to heave to when you needed to stop for a while? Things of that nature enter into the "seaworthy" discussion, not simply being able to do inter island day trips without spilling the gin.

The Benie 473, while having a bit too much freeboard and the universal worries of structural liner/Plexus construction, seems a tolerable sea boat, if properly maintained. But it doesn't quite reach the floating condo realm IMO. The Moody designs of late, the ones that seem to attempt emulating catamarans, are the sort that in my eyes fail the seaworthy test and achieve "condodom". The combination of an open transom and no bridge deck is simply not a good idea at sea.

Ann and I have done quite a lot of sea miles in conventional monohulls, neither traditional nor ultra modern. We were not uncomfortable (outside of horrible sea conditions), and we didn't sink. With limited experience, I find the motion of catamarans twitchy and uncomfortable in some sea conditions. In other conditions, and at anchor in calm waters, they are indeed comfortable and the saloons are spacious and offer great visibility. I don't find the below decks accommodations (which do require using stairs or ladders) salubrious in many of the cats of reasonable size that we've been on. Such things are a matter of individual tastes and preferences , and are hardly worth arguing over.

So, I reckon that I will continue to have some degree of disdain for the floating condos of my own definition, irrespective of hull numbers. This isn't a multi-bashing issue, for I believe that some cats are quite seaworthy and admirable. I, along with folks who fork out the big bucks for Chris White cats, or Outremers or other non-condo cats see considerable difference between them and the flying bridge behemoths that litter the seas. Are we justified in these opinions? Well, I think so, others may not, and that's ok with me.

I'm not sure that I've properly responded here, and mean to step on no toes. My ideas of a good seagoing vessel may not agree with all, but have been developed over many years of cruising. I could be suffering from the "it worked for me so it must be right" syndrome... on teh other hand, I could be right!

Jim

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I thought that the OP was considering monohulls, not cats, in his search.

.....
Jim

"3. Minimum 40 ft cat or mono with swim platform for water and dingy access."

[Gaia]

Originally Posted by zippy

I have always been a sailor so I am still looking at sailboats and fibreglass is fine with me. I am tending to agree with YachtBroker that at $200k a mono hull will provide better value. If I was spending another $100k, I would be looking at cats.

The Stevens 47 is a nice looking boat but am leaning towards a larger deeper aft cockpit style to maximize the floating condo experience. Why is "floating condo" always said with such distain? There is nothing wrong with being comfortable, and it doesn't have to be at the expense of seaworthiness if properly done.

The "no ocean crossings" comment was intended to explain the expected normal use of the boat. I wouldn't buy any boat that couldn't safely sail from NS to the Caribbean.

Why the 200k cutoff price zippy?

[zippy]

Everyone has a price ceiling, hence the inevitable debate about trade-offs. Apparently this price range doesn't seem to generate much interest on this forum.

[FlyingScot]

Lagoon 380? Yes less than 40 ft but surely comparable to 45 ft mono, no?

[jtsailjt]

Regarding floating condos also being seaworthy I think your opinion on this depends a lot on how you define "floating condo." I think (hope) we generally all agree with only some small differences about the other part of this equation, the seaworthy part. I feel like my current boat qualifies as a seaworthy floating condo, at least by my definition. It has all the amenities that a condo would have, including central heat and air conditioning (though I hardly ever use it) a genset, refrigerator/freezer, comfy and spacious aft cabin with a "skylight" over the queen sized bed," everthing in the galley that my home has in the kitchen (except dishwasher), a private "guest room" and ensuite "bathroom" with hot showers, etc. It's also quite a rugged and seaworthy design and I wouldn't hesitate to take it anywhere that I felt competent to sail (I'm the limiting factor, not the boat!). I think it's when people try to pack in all these creature comforts and interior volume in a boat 10' shorter that they must sacrifice seaworthiness and become "just a floating condo." But there are plenty of boats out there that are seaworthy AND have all the amenities I can imaging anyone wanting in a floating condo.

[Eleuthera 2014]

Originally Posted by zippy

That's the rub Jim, it's all relative. I spent a month on a 47ft cat in the Eastern Caribbean and it was very seaworthy and very condo like. So that's one example. Beneteau 473's can be very well appointed and very seaworthy boats, even condo like in my opinion.

You don't have to live uncomfortably to avoid sinking..

If a Bene 473 is a possible choices, have a serious look at the First 47.7. Well appointed inside and better in light airs; it was designed as a racer. Get a 3 cabin version if you can find one ... white hull also nicer than Dark Blue as it will be cooler. Add a genset and AC and you will have a fast and comfortable condo.

The only negative is they draw quite some water: 2.5 Meters IIRC.

GL with your search

[Pizzazz]

Originally Posted by zippy

Everyone has a price ceiling, hence the inevitable debate about trade-offs. Apparently this price range doesn't seem to generate much interest on this forum.

My humble view on price points and boat worth is that at around 30-35 feet you get a real sailboat with room for 1-2 people (2bed/1 head). Tight, cave like but if you get an efficienct design you can do a lot for under $30K. Hence that thread. Most people buy older boats in cash in this range.

Going up in size from there does not buy you much because you need to get the second head, the swimstep, windlass - all of this takes space. While you get some extras the boat becomes deeper and going up/down the companion way is the major issue for me. You need to get to the 45-50 range to get a condo like experience (3bed/2head). And you still have the cave like staterooms unless you get a newer design or a CC which has headroom issues. A cat solves most of these issues nicely and is excellent for the Caribbean. A nice 45-50 mono or 40-45 cat is double your proposed range. Then it is more logical to finance at this price range so you need to get a newer boat.

If you truly want a condo like experience, you need to get a motor yacht. May be triple your price range and then add some.

In my marina (quite large) you see sub $30K boats changing hands often, a number of $120-200K boats sitting unsold for a long time and new $300-$500K boats incl. cats popping up all the time. This is just casual observation.