More "cruisers" violate borders and more on S/V Zatara

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by StuM

Yes, the previous bit which you misconstrued which says you have to apply before embarking towards Fiji.
When you are 12 mile offshore, it is a long time after embarking on the trip.

But but but, Fiji has no right to tell me what to do before I leave! How dare they. /s

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

It's a manoeuvring signal meaning "You should go astern".

The Pratique signals in section 9:




Get a copy here: https://msi.nga.mil/Publications/ICOS

Thank you, and most interesting (to me anyway). I also had not seen references to the term 'Pratique'.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like the old Lima 'Contagion' flag has been rendered obsolete, at least under the int'l rules . As Stu has pointed out, however, individual countries may have their own variants of these rules that may need to be followed. As a more practical matter -- for recreational yachts anyway -- one may have it largely covered by carrying a second Q onboard (and perhaps the lights). Of course, radios and cell phones may often suffice.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Exile

As a more practical matter -- for recreational yachts anyway -- one may have it largely covered by carrying a second Q onboard (and perhaps the lights). Of course, radios and cell phones may often suffice.

If you're sitting out a quarantine period with no sign of sickness, you only need one Q flag.

[bcboomer]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

But but but, Fiji has no right to tell me what to do before I leave! How dare they. /s

Sure they do. Just like other countries require applying for a visa before you leave another country. Sometimes they require the application months ahead.

[Kelkara]

It must be a local thing. Alaska is currently requiring all fishing boats arriving from out if state to fly a Lima flag for the duration of their 14 days isolation.

Originally Posted by StuM

If you're sitting out a quarantine period with no sign of sickness, you only need one Q flag.

[NPCampbell]

Originally Posted by StuM

Yes, the previous bit which you misconstrued which says you have to apply before embarking towards Fiji.
When you are 12 mile offshore, it is a long time after embarking on the trip.

I don't believe I misconstrued anything. If you are sailing, you can embark for any country at any time and Fiji won't know anything about it. If I'm on my way to Hawaii and 12.1 miles outside of Fiji I decide to stop in Fiji then that's when I embarked for Fiji.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by NPCampbell

I don't believe I misconstrued anything. If you are sailing, you can embark for any country at any time and Fiji won't know anything about it. If I'm on my way to Hawaii and 12.1 miles outside of Fiji I decide to stop in Fiji then that's when I embarked for Fiji.

I think that attitude is disgusting and further more it is dishonest.

If you sail directly from New Zealand to Fiji (or Tonga, or Minerva reef) you are fooling no one when you say, "Oh I just decided on Fiji as I was happening to arrive at their 12 mile limit." If Fiji says, "You have to apply before you begin your trip to our country" than your arrogant subterfuge is just that, and you have no place in the cruising community.

And the same applied to Zatara, who knew Tonga was not permitting foreign vessels to enter their country, yet they proceeded anyhow, and their tracker shows a direct course to Minervia Reef, so it was not a last minute decision, and claiming that they needed to wait for weather is disingenuous. The fact that the Tongan patrol vessel did not arrest them shows tells more about Tongan generosity towards their fellow man than it validates the Zataras decision.

My view of this also applies to those who claim a boat breakdown as an excuse to enter and stay (or over stay) in a port or country. It fools no one and the negative impression it leaves with the foreign officials is not easily erased.

[NPCampbell]

Originally Posted by NPCampbell

Is there something stopping someone from arranging an agent while 12 miles offshore?

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Well there is the need to send the results of a clean PCR test within 48 hrs of departing.

Even though I believe they obtained a test prior to leaving NZ, "Sending" it, doesn't appear to be a requirement. See the options below. There are several way to enter Fiji for cruisers now.

Once again, I can't see where they've done anything wrong.



Fiji entry requirements

Option One: Intending travellers must present a certificate from a recognised medical institution certifying their 14 days of quarantine in their home country, along with proof of a negative COVID test result within 48 hours of their departure for Fiji, at which point they can immediately start their “Bula Bubble” holiday within confined VIP lanes.

Option Two: Upon arrival in Fiji, they can complete 14 days of quarantine at their own cost in a Fijian Government-designated quarantine centre or a hotel of their choosing, after which a negative COVID test can clear them to start their “Bula Bubble” vacation.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by NPCampbell

Even though I believe they obtained a test prior to leaving NZ, "Sending" it, doesn't appear to be a requirement. See the options below. There are several way to enter Fiji for cruisers now.

Once again, I can't see where they've done anything wrong.



Fiji entry requirements

Option One: Intending travellers must present a certificate from a recognised medical institution certifying their 14 days of quarantine in their home country, along with proof of a negative COVID test result within 48 hours of their departure for Fiji, at which point they can immediately start their “Bula Bubble” holiday within confined VIP lanes.

Option Two: Upon arrival in Fiji, they can complete 14 days of quarantine at their own cost in a Fijian Government-designated quarantine centre or a hotel of their choosing, after which a negative COVID test can clear them to start their “Bula Bubble” vacation.

Rules changed 2 days ago. You now must send the test prior to receiving your approval to enter Fiji waters. Recieved email from agent on the 10/7 advising me this.

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by NPCampbell

I've read these posts as well as the Zatara's and I can't see what laws, if any, were broken including "violating" borders.

Let me get this straight. Correct me if I am wrong.

It appears they legally left NZ by clearing with the proper authorities. They legally sailed in international waters. They legally contacted Tongan authorities outside of their territorial waters (according to their blog), they were legally granted temporary safe harbor by the Tongan Navy (again, according to their blog), there's been no info on how they left Tonga, they legally sailed across international waters again and we have no information as to what procedures they used to enter Fijian territorial waters.

Other than petty jealousy or ZDS I am struggling to understand what the driving factors about this story are. I guess one could argue that without a firm destination that if they encountered a storm they would be in peril. However, in that case, they would be able to take shelter with both Tonga or Fiji as both of these countries participate in the UNCLOS agreements which dictate safe harbor and innocent passage for those in distress or seeking shelter from storms, etc.

You are relying on a blog for truth?

Here is a good source

An American sailing yacht that was denied entry to Tonga is heading to Tongan territory anyway, expecting to anchor at Minerva Reef (Tele ki Tonga and Tele ki Tokelau) tomorrow, Sunday July 5. Tonga's patrol boat VOEA Neiafu is currently at Minerva Reef, the HMAF Navy confirmed today.

The ‘Sailing Zatara’ a Privilege 585 Catamaran carrying a family of five, left New Zealand's Marsen Cove on June 29 and published a video log saying they were headed to Minerva Reef where they intended to stay for a couple of weeks.

However, Tonga's borders are closed under CoViD-19 restrictions, and the crew of the ‘Sailing Zatara’ already know this.

On March 18 Keith Whitaker was informed by Tonga's Minister of Health Dr ‘Amelia Afuha’amango Tu’ipulotu: “Please note that you are not granted entry to Tonga sea areas – all private sail boats will not be granted entry to the Kingdom until further notice.”

Whitaker posted a screenshot of this email onto his social media.

This seems pretty clear to me...and it seems he understood as well.

A New Zealand Customs official tells Whitaker that provided they do not have any illnesses, there is a declaration to be made around their health status, saying: “The important question is where are you intending to go, and can you get into that port? That the country will permit you to go in there.”

Whitaker tells Customs, “Well, obviously, I can go to any American Port, because I'm an American, .... we can stay at sea a long time.”

Again, his ignorance is reveled. In fact, he cannot go to any American port. No boats are allowed to stop at the Marshall Islands. Boats may go to Guam but will be required to quarantine; they are not permitted in the Northern Marianas. According to OloteleMtn, US vessels are permitted to go to American Samoa to re-supply, but not permitted entry.

It helps to read the links provided in the previous posts.

[OloteleMtn]

American Samoa is not America...according to the current attorney general of American Samoa, "We can do whatever we want" (personal conversation on a separate but similar issue). Hawaii is open with quarantine restrictions; it is part of America and is not so arbitrary.

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

Sure they do. Just like other countries require applying for a visa before you leave another country. Sometimes they require the application months ahead.

The /s at the end was indicating sarcasm.


I completely agree with you but those making excuses don't.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

......

Again, his ignorance is reveled. In fact, he cannot go to any American port. No boats are allowed to stop at the Marshall Islands. Boats may go to Guam but will be required to quarantine; they are not permitted in the Northern Marianas. According to OloteleMtn, US vessels are permitted to go to American Samoa to re-supply, but not permitted entry.

It helps to read the links provided in the previous posts.

As of 1st Julyin American Samoa
Work your way down past all the 'whereasez'
They are currently 'code blue'

Edit... Item 7 regarding private flights seems as close as it gets to dealing with yachts..

https://6fe16cc8-c42f-411f-9950-4abb...6b5bfc38e9.pdf

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Kelkara

It must be a local thing. Alaska is currently requiring all fishing boats arriving from out if state to fly a Lima flag for the duration of their 14 days isolation.

Curious where you've heard that? Doesn't seem to be in LNMs.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

Sure they do. Just like other countries require applying for a visa before you leave another country. Sometimes they require the application months ahead.

Are you familiar with Poe's Law?


or the meaning of "/s" at the end of a post?
"It is common in online conversation among some Internet users to use an XML closing tag: </sarcasm>. The tag is often written only after the sarcasm so as to momentarily trick the reader before admitting the joke. Over time, it has evolved to lose the angle brackets (/sarcasm) and has subsequently been shortened to /sarc or /s "